Cool Coffee w/ Kansas Principals

CC#38 - A Principal's Perspective - LaTonia Kennedy - Leveraging Community Partners

A Principal's Perspective: "Leveraging Community Partners"
LaTonia Kennedy
Principal
Gordon Parks Academy
X for Wichita Public Schools
Facebook: LaTonia Kennedy
Is there a project that you would love to see happen at your school, but funding is an issue? Or, you would love to create reading groups during lunch time, but you don't have volunteers?  It's as easy as leveraging your community partners through connections, celebrations and Solicitation.  Through leveraging community partnerships, we were able to take students to Paris, France without any cost to the students or our district.
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Connect with Cool Coffee on...
Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee
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Contact the host: @MrRickSola, rfsola@olatheschools.org, or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com
The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
Read more about the KPA HERE.

CC#37: A Principal's Perspective - Rick Rivera - Keep Doing What's Best for Kids

A Principal's Perspective: Keep Doing What is Best for Kids
Rick Rivera
Principal 
Augusta High School
Augusta USD402
@mrrickrivera
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YOUR FEEDBACK ON COOL COFFEE IS APPRECIATED! 
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Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee
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Contact the host: @MrRickSola, rfsola@olatheschools.org, or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com
The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
Read more about the KPA HERE.

CC#36: A Principal's Perspective - Anita Scheve - Maintaining a Work/Life Balance as a Principal (from a mom of 4)

A Principal's Perspective: Maintaining a Work/Life Balance as a Principal (from a mom of 4)
Anita Scheve, Principal 
Woodrow Wilson Elementary
USD 489 Hays
Anita Kimball-Scheve (FB)
Akscheve (IG)
@ascheve (X)
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YOUR FEEDBACK ON COOL COFFEE IS APPRECIATED! 
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Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee
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Contact the host: @MrRickSola, rfsola@olatheschools.org, or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com
The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
Read more about the KPA HERE.
 

CC#35: Mr. Chris Legleiter - Aubry Bend Middle School

In this episode of Cool Coffee with Kansas principals, Rick Sola interviews Chris Legleiter, principal of Aubrey Bend Middle School in Blue Valley, USD 229. They discuss the challenges faced in education, the importance of conflict resolution, and the need for collaboration among staff, students, and parents. Chris shares his journey in education, emphasizing the significance of creating a positive school culture and engaging students in their learning. The conversation highlights the role of student ambassadors and the impact of recognizing and celebrating student achievements. Chris expresses his belief in the potential of students and the importance of making a difference in their lives. (full transcript of the show below)
Tim Wakefield quote from the show: "What matters most..."
Connect with Chris:
X: @clegleiter
Email: CLegleiter@bluevalleyk12.org
Chapters (timestamp does not account for show intro)
00:00 Introduction and Background02:53 Navigating Challenges in Education06:07 The Journey to Leadership08:58 Conflict as an Opportunity11:58 Motivating Staff for the Fourth Quarter15:08 Enhancing Student Engagement18:02 Building Stronger Parent Connections21:02 Creating a Positive School Culture24:01 The Role of Student Ambassadors27:03 Reflections on Education and Future Generations30:02 Closing Thoughts and Encouragement
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YOUR FEEDBACK ON COOL COFFEE IS APPRECIATED! 
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Contact the host: @MrRickSola, rfsola@olatheschools.org, or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com
The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
Read more about the KPA HERE.
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Transcript is AI generated
Rick Sola (00:01.119)Hello and welcome to another edition of Cool Coffee with Kansas principals. I'm here today with Mr. Chris Legleiter of Aubrey Bend Middle School, Blue Valley School District, USD 229. Welcome, Chris.
Chris (00:14.616)Thank you for having me, Rick. I'm excited to be a part of this wonderful podcast with principals throughout the state of Kansas.
Rick Sola (00:20.999)Awesome to have you on and really appreciate it. for those who aren't aware, the position that I currently hold at KPA Communications Director is Chris is my predecessor here. When was that exactly, Chris?
Chris (00:39.15)Goodness, I want to say like 21, 22 maybe. It's been a few years. Time does go fast, but it's been a few years, yes.
Rick Sola (00:48.605)Yeah, well, I'm excited to have you on and just talk about some things. as we record this, first of all, it's early in the morning. I got my coffee right here. I don't know what your morning choice is.
Chris (01:00.472)Coffee as well, coffee as well.
Rick Sola (01:02.335)Yeah, I can't drive past a quick trip hardly without veering off and grabbing something. But actually, I go out of my way to go there. But anyway, you just learned. So it's the Friday before spring break. But you just said for you, this is a professional development day. Kids are already on spring break. It's a Friday. And how did it go? Did you get through the week OK?
Chris (01:26.998)Yeah, it's been a great week. mean, I was reminded by a colleague that earlier in the week it's a full moon and we know as the weather has warmed up considerably, sometimes, you know, behaviors do have a tendency to increase, but our kids did a great job. Staff did a great job. We finished the third quarter really strong after all those snow days and, you know, kind of interruptions there. We had a great finish to the third quarter.
Rick Sola (01:49.565)Yeah, this past week has been so beautiful outside. The exact opposite of the entire third quarter for the most part. think we actually, you know, students enjoy the time off, the snow days, but I think they really enjoy the routine too and kind of sinking into a week and getting going.
Chris (02:10.89)I know, yes, students do, but I know staff, I do as well. I think all of us benefit from a consistent routine and having a snow day, people are able to work around that, but it was the frequency that we had this year that made it even more challenging for schools.
Rick Sola (02:26.089)So Chris, we're just down the road from each other and we all pretty much have the same snow day impact here, which was several. And I know here in my district, we are adjusting our quarter four schedule a little bit. We're adding five minutes to each of the levels and all of our professional days needed to student contact days, full days. Blue Valley, what kind of efforts did you have to do at all?
Chris (02:53.632)Yeah, I think as a whole our district had a professional learning day in April that now is a student contact day. So like you mentioned, some of those PD days have been eliminated and we have student contact days. By level then there were some different things. The high schools have had to I think adjust or no longer have some of their late starts for several times to increase minutes. Our elementaries actually have what they call a collaboration day like once every month where it's just staff, no students, which
is wonderful for PLC collaboration, but they've had to, I think just one or two of those, they've had to eliminate one of those PLC collaboration days to make them student days. Our middle schools have fairly amount of good minutes, so we have not had as much impact, but all of us had that April professional learning day now become a student day. And we're hoping no more winter weather. That's the key.
Rick Sola (03:42.387)Yeah.
Rick Sola (03:46.481)goodness, I hope not. But I mean, we have had some snows at this time of year. And then, you know, I see things posted about, you know, storm that's rolling in today or tonight and bomb cyclone and all this. It's just click bait, I think. But of course, I'm I'm the one that clicks on it and like, what's a bomb cyclone? We got to check this out. And yeah.
Chris (04:06.946)Well, if you can find out what that is, let me know. I saw that and did not click on it. I was like, I'm staring away from weather.
Rick Sola (04:13.203)Yeah, that sounds so ominous. I think it's just basically a storm. I don't know, with some high winds, but yeah, so it goes. Chris, as we get going here, one thing I always like to ask about your road in education, how you got to Aubrey Bend Middle School and everything that led up to it. What is your road to Aubrey Bend?
Chris (04:19.63)you
Chris (04:38.178)Yeah, it's been a road that has twists and turns like anyone's career. I was a high school science teacher for 11 years. And I was in three different school districts, wonderful districts, Washburn Rural High School, back to my hometown of St. Mary's for several years. And then I came to Blue Valley and I was actually at one of our high schools as a science teacher for several years. Really enjoyed it. I I love teaching in the classroom and I just felt that pull
where I wanted to make a bigger impact beyond my classroom, which led me to administration. And within Blue Valley, I've had the opportunity to be an assistant principal really in four different buildings, both high school and middle school. And then I became a principal at Leewood Middle School and had a great opportunity there to help really with the staff, make some very positive change, really value that experience with the staff and the parent community and the students.
some amazing things. For me, it's always that drive and pull of how do I continue to get better? What do I need to do to stretch myself, get outside that comfort zone? Aubrey Bend is a much larger student enrollment building than I was at Leewood Middle, and I thought that would provide a different opportunity for me to grow as a leader, and it has. It's been a good challenge. The staff and parents and kids are amazing as well. This is my third year here, so it's been something where we've tried to continue.
what's been working but also add value to things that we feel like we can elevate and make better and the staff have been amazing. Students have been incredible and our parent support is awesome as well. It's been a great three years but every school year every administrator will tell you has new challenges and we always just try to focus on like what can we control, how will we together respond so we keep the focus on what matters most and you know every year there's been different challenges but it's how we work together to navigate
through those to still focus on our students and I'm really supportive of the people we have.
Rick Sola (06:43.263)Yeah, you mentioned the growth that has occurred through the course of your career. And just like you said, the twists and turns. I think we, bet everybody who listens or everybody who sits in the principal chair can describe the twists and turns. And I kind of think of it as just an opportunity to grow in new ways. know, we get placed. Sometimes we, opportunities present themselves. Other times opportunities are given or.
or we pursue or whatever the case may be, but that opportunity for growth is just all around. then, you just like you said, each year presents its new challenges. I had a principal want to say every year it's either the kid year, the parent year, or the staff year. of, yeah, or a combo of all three. But yeah, certainly no, there's always a challenge and there's always something in.
Chris (07:28.974)Or a combination of all three.
Rick Sola (07:41.311)Truly, I think that's part of what makes the job fun. You're constantly having to be on your toes. You're constantly having to think critically. But yeah, can be a grind, but it could be fun too.
Chris (07:53.27)Yeah, and I was telling our staff earlier in the year at a professional learning. was like, you know, every year we will have conflict because when you're dealing with people, students, staff and parents, there's going to be times there's disagreement or conflict. so it's not that conflict is a negative thing. It's how we work through it to help people. And that's something in my own professional journey, like understanding and just as a leader, building leader, administrator, understanding how to work through conflict.
and don't see it as a negative, but as a truly as an opportunity. And it's not always easy, that is for sure, but it's learning how to involve other people so it's a collaborative decision or to really think about how to what's in the best interest of our students, you know, what can we do to work through that conflict. Those are things that I've learned over time. It's gonna happen. Every building is gonna have challenges and conflict every year. It's just a matter of how do we respond to it? How do we focus on what matters most with our building?
And that's been a growth opportunity for me for sure.
Rick Sola (08:58.141)You mentioned conflict and it does, it happens. I would say, I don't know if traditionally, stereotypically, whatever, we're approaching April, we're spring break, we come back. This is the time of year where some of those things that may have been, whether it's tolerated in a classroom, are now reaching boiling points or the thing that's...
been a bother. You know, things tend to culminate before the end of the year. So we come back and now, you know, some of those professional development days, they do act as a nice little buffer sometimes for a little like to break up a month of April. And now it's a solid, you know, it's a solid run. What kind of messaging? First of all, I love the messaging that you give at the beginning of the year, kind of framing the year as to expect conflict. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, but
Chris (09:27.022)All right.
Chris (09:35.576)You do.
Yeah.
Rick Sola (09:51.141)As we come back, you got a PD day today. What are some important messaging you want to get to your staff for the fourth quarter?
Chris (09:59.084)Yeah, I think, you know, I think as a building leader, one thing I always strive to do is find ways to continue to motivate our staff. And a lot of times that means like connecting to their hearts, you know, the emotion, their feelings. So whether it's an inspirational story and sometimes it's not always like the building leaders that have to, you know, do that. It's sometimes involving our staff and letting them share something and it or maybe from a student perspective or a parent perspective. So we try to really connect back to our why, you know, the
on our people, our students. I think that's always essential, but I do find when we have professional learning, and today is our what we call district professional learning, so I won't see our staff today to do that. So I'll have to do some things when we come back after spring break, but I think always trying to find a way to connect back to your purpose is important. I always think it's important to keep staff informed about things upcoming, keep them involved in decisions. In other words, I'm someone who really believes in collaborative decision-making.
There's very few decisions that are only the principals. really try to involve our leadership team, our admin team, our teachers, getting their feedback and input because they know best. They're working with directly with the kids more than I am. So I think involving our staff and decisions, but I also think it comes back to in many cases helping our staff and reminding myself we've got to focus on what we can control. Just keep focus on what we can control and we're going to do it together. You know, there's going to be challenges, but we're going to work
through it together. That's how as a school we're going to be successful is by doing things together, not in isolation, but doing things together. Good example, we all have unfilled subs, you know, and those are very common challenges and we can solve that day to day by just understanding how do we do that as a school system. Like together we can fill classes, but we can't have one person being trying to solve it all by themselves. And, you know, there's going to be, like you said, things that come up that I'm not aware of, you're not aware of, but it's brought to our seats and then we have to work through it.
Rick Sola (11:55.231)You
Chris (11:58.72)It comes back to really, I think, listening to people, you know, in those moments, you know, really supporting our teachers, but also understanding from the student parent perspective and.
Over time I've really learned that you don't solve problems through email you you need to have face-to-face conversation phone conversation if that's not possible But you really just have to have those conversations and like as we come back from break It's it's gonna help our staff to really have that mindset of not counting down the days we have left in the fourth quarter But making each day count I always use the analogy like you know, this is the last quarter for our eighth graders and we wanted to make it their best So how do we do that? You know, and so those are
some of those things that I try to really help our staff be mindful of. It is a very challenging job being an educator, but once again if we can find ways to find gratitude and joy within the work so we collect back to our purpose, know, helping each other, helping kids, and then making things together, doing things together, I think are some of the things we really try to emphasize, especially in the fourth quarter.
Rick Sola (13:01.535)I love the collaborative approach and I try to maintain the same thing and there's maybe a sacrifice of efficiency with certain collaborative but I think it does pay off and you do have to have the conversations where people, business and people are fickle and just like you said with the email, it can be simple to send an email but
Chris (13:13.358)True.
Rick Sola (13:30.523)sometimes you're just passing the time off to the future, you know, because it may not get read the right way or whatever the case may be.
Chris (13:37.868)Yeah. And it sometimes just an email will make things, you know, at least to five more emails instead of a five minute phone call maybe could have helped resolve that, you know. So yeah, it's sometimes it's about understanding what can be done through email. But typically when there's conflict or, know, just questions, those conversations are needed to happen.
You know, I was going to talk to just mention a little bit about engagement, what we're talking about with engagement this year. Do you want me to share a little bit about that?
Rick Sola (14:07.281)Absolutely, yeah.
Chris (14:08.342)So one of the things looking back like from two years ago to last year and this year we decided is the engagement in our building it was was fine. It wasn't bad, but I felt like you know through research and really talking to our leadership team, the more we get our students involved in in classroom learning and and simply that means like how do we help our students become more reflective in their learning and driving their own learning? You know, in other words, being authentic, responsible for their learning.
learning, not trying to focus on the grades. know that's easy for lot of youngsters, but helping kids understand how do you learn? You know, how do you understand to study for that test and how what type of reflection are you doing about your learning so you're prepared for the next test? How to ask questions? You know, how does respond to peer questions? So we're really in in classroom instruction trying to drive engagement through many instructional strategies using a lot of John Hattie's research, visible learning, but it's also going broader. We're trying to involve
of our students a lot of leadership opportunities in our building. Recognizing the great things they do with character in sports and activities, know the musical and the plays, creating videos.
that we send out to our families so they can see the experiences in our day, but also recognizing kids like many schools do. We call it our ABC recipients, you basically the character virtues. We try to highlight them on our social media, on the school and our intercom, but then as an admin, we call their parents every Friday. And that's, takes time because that's six phone calls. We do two students per grade level, but that takes time. But it's so important, I think, to share with parents positive news coming from an administrator.
makes me feel better, I also think once again, you're putting a good connection with parents that maybe down the road there could be an issue that you have to circle back and work through with them. But school is about finding ways to elevate kids and help kids find success. So we found that has been very healthy this year. During our staff PD, we've gone actually and said OK for the next 30 minutes, everybody you're going to find, you know, four students that you have in class. Think about the kids that are consistently doing the expected behaviors and they're just doing because that's what who they
Chris (16:19.952)are sometimes those are the kids were not recognizing enough because they're so I would say they're just going through their motions, but they're always doing the right things. We need to call them. So, you know, when we do that, you're making 300 calls to parents as a building and that's pretty impactful. So we try to find some ways to elevate students. But this year we've done something to even elevate our parents even more involvement in our school where we've done actually parent walkthroughs in our classrooms. And we've done coffee with principals, some, you know, some
building leaders have those meetings where you bring parents in. We've done that before too. this year we would bring them in and talk about student engagement, but then we'd actually do classroom walkthroughs with our parents. And that has been so positive. Our parents who were able to attend really appreciated just getting into classrooms and seeing teaching and learning what it actually looks like, because it's so different than I think how we went to school, how they went to school. And we involved our fifth grade families, you know, in February when we were doing enrollment, we involved our fifth grade families.
and it provided, I think, some understanding of what that experience in middle school is going to look like. So that was something new going back to engagement that we really tried to highlight was how do we get our students to be more authentically leading? How do we get our parents to have a greater understanding of the work we're doing? And then with our staff, we're really trying to find ways to help them elevate their roles in our building. And simply that a lot of times that means involving them in decisions, recognizing them,
validating their efforts. In like a lot of buildings, we do things like the tireless teacher. know, once a week we highlight a teacher who's going above and beyond and we recognize them in front of kids and put on social media.
But sometimes it's those handwritten notes, you you put in their mailbox or you put it on their desk. mean, so we're trying to find ways as an administrative team to really increase engagement in our building. And that's been very uplifting. It's been it's been more of a work on us as administrators, but I think it's helping us work ahead because now our students have a greater ownership. This is their building. Our staff, I think, has more investment in their work because they recognize their what they're doing matters. And I think our parents have a greater understanding of what
Chris (18:32.344)school day actually looks like. So it's been positive and I'm hoping that momentum continues in our fourth quarter.
Rick Sola (18:38.769)Yeah, those notes that they're seen when you go into a classroom, you know, they don't get thrown away. They get posted. And it's always it's a reminder when I go into a room and you just happen to see it, not necessarily from me or but all the notes from everybody they've ever gotten. And it's kind of cool. And then I'll see like, that was from two years ago that I wrote that. The same thing, the social media is it's really cool. It's fun to share. People see it. But that handwritten note feels so personal.
Chris (18:44.876)Yeah, I...
Chris (19:07.31)So true, Rick, I was in a teacher's classroom just like last week having a conversation and it was one where we just had to have a real honest conversation, how to help a student, you know, see their perspective as a teacher.
And I noticed as they were talking behind them on their bulletin board in their classroom was a note I wrote to them, you know, kind of a private, hey, thank you, showing some gratitude. And it was from my first year here at Aubrey Bend. So the fall of 22. And, and, you know, now it's spring and 25. And I'm thinking, like, to your point, it matters to people that they've pinned it up on their board and it's there years later. So a lot of times that authentic praise is what really helps over time, keeps people invested and involved.
Rick Sola (19:48.221)Yeah. Parents, when they walk through your room, I'm just curious, you know, they walk in and, you know, once they get over the, look, I know you and, you know, all that stuff, what was their feedback and just thoughts with the whole thing?
Chris (20:02.542)Yeah, we well we tried to set it up a little bit like we had teachers kind of opt in like we said to our staff because we're working on engagement with our teachers and instruction like I mentioned. So we talked to our teachers about hey, we're going to involve our parents and walkthroughs. Who wants to come? You know who's open having parents come in on this day? You know certain day and hours and we probably had I think 25 or 28 teachers that said I'll do it. They can come on in. You know I'm not giving a test and we're not doing like a closed reading silent reading activity or anything. So the teachers then provide
a descriptor, basically a statement about what the teaching and learning would be that day. Whether they're doing like a station rotation, a lab, a simulation. And before we had our parents actually walk through the classrooms, our administrative team did probably a 10 minute presentation at most, a very short one, but it talked about the strategies we use as teachers to help our kids learn and the importance of learning content through skills, skill development. And so then we gave our parents like two or three things to look for.
A good example is we wanted them to understand how much the kids are working with other students like peer-to-peer and so when they had a small handout the parents so when walked in the rooms, you know, they we said, you know, if the kids are doing small group conversation, you can ask the students like hey talk to me about what you're doing, but if it's more of a teacher facilitation, know, don't disrupt that but it was really I think impactful and after we went into each room and we have three administrators in our building. So like I had a group of maybe ten parents
another administrator had another group of 10, you know, they would come out in the hallway and we would do a debrief for a minute and then we'd go into another classroom. So it helps the parents to recognize like why teachers do what they do and the purpose of those activity for kids. And they ask, the parents ask great questions. I mean it really helped us to understand.
the importance of making sure like our communication on Friday newsletters, it's really clear, not too much education jargon. But it's so important that parents understand why we do the things we do.
Rick Sola (22:03.869)I was going to ask what kind of, just kind of logistically, to set this up, you put it out there, know, kind of front loading for the community, whatever. What did you have to do beforehand?
Chris (22:15.406)Yeah, we once again we worked with our teachers about who's open to that day and time. You know, it was about an hour and half block. Give us a brief one statement description of what you're doing and then separately, you know, we reached out to our parents and kind of described this is what we'd like to do is invite you into our classrooms because we recognize
We know our students, but our parents know them the best. But it's that partnership that's going to allow us to really help their child have a great experience. And so we said, you know, here's a Google form, sign up if you're coming in. And once they signed up, then we reached out to them and kind of shared some logistics and then front loaded them on that day with this kind of like instructional strategies to look for and also a handout to help guide their thinking and their questions. Then after we were all done and we were back in our, we met in the library with our parents.
we had a debrief. You what are three things you noticed? What's one to two questions that you have? And that was really helpful too, because the parents, this was probably the most reaffirming thing to me as an administrator, is that the parents overwhelmingly said,
how positive the classroom culture felt in the hallways, the classrooms, the kids really feel a sense of connection to our teachers. And when parents say that, it's not their own child they're talking about, they're observing it, you know, that felt really supportive, encouraging for us because obviously it all starts with culture. You've got to have a positive learning culture. And that wasn't one of the focal points that we were focusing on with our parents. It was more the instructional learning. But that was one of the things they noticed is how
Positive just the peer-to-peer interaction teacher to student hallways and that's reaffirming because I know that's what they're sharing with their neighbor down the street That it felt pretty good being in the building, you know It's not the perception of on the movies what they see about schools and so that was a byproduct that I think we didn't anticipate but it was very you know positive and encouraging and Obviously, we know we still need to continue to get better at connecting with kids I mean, it's never 100 % and we're gonna continue to thrive
Rick Sola (24:01.662)Yeah.
Chris (24:22.64)strive to get 100 % of our kids connected to an adult. that was really encouraging, I think,
Rick Sola (24:28.711)Yeah, in many ways it's maybe not surprising. think parents, they drop off their kids here and they want their kids to feel good at school. And so when they walk into your building, it does make sense that the first thing they notice is like, what a relief. It feels so good in here. I love that. And like, okay. What are you learning now? You know, but they got to, just like you said, the culture is the beginning. They're not going to get, if the culture is the exact opposite and you feel it and it's, it's just not good.
they're not going to care at all about what, the first thing they're going like, what in the world is going on in this classroom? they could be teaching about all sorts of amazing things, but you got to get past the feel good or the culture part of it.
Chris (25:09.774)Correct. so like here's a different example. just want to share with you something we've tried to really embrace is that like any school, we have new students sometimes that start in the middle of the year. So we had a new family coming in yesterday. They're going to start after spring break. And we have, you know, we do school tours once they're, you know, for sure coming to our building and we have our own eighth grade ambassadors. That's what we call them. Students. There's about 65 of them that do different activities within our building. They lead incoming six
grade events, web leaders is what some people call them, you know, that some schools have. But the these eighth grade ambassadors, we use two or three for every family tour. They lead the families in the student on the tour. I don't go with them. I let our ambassadors do it. And these are students that, you know, we give them some talking points, know, areas to go in the building. And, know, if they're an eighth grader taking down the eighth grade pod. But like, I don't know for sure what our kids are telling these families. But I always tell the families, you ask them anything you want. Like, I trust our students to know we're here for this.
them and I trust our kids of our school. Now, som with the amount of homework kids. But I trust our kid of who we are and what we have our students help tell our families and that's been so h because the families are h from kids, you know that t be the same age and that's We do that with our when
don't go on the tour of the building with the teacher we're interviewing, we have those student ambassadors do it. And once again, the applicants are getting a feel for is this where I'd like to be directly from our students. And that's been very positive as well.
Rick Sola (26:54.623)The tell a story aspect just seems to get more more critical because the story will get told one way or the other and it's more accessible and it can be more widely spread and so it is important for us. There's so many good things going on in our schools and truly that's part of the reason for this podcast is to hear what's going on in the state.
Chris (27:02.51)That is true.
Chris (27:13.186)There is.
Rick Sola (27:19.719)But yeah, we've got to be proactive with that. There's a lot of good things there. We have a web program, but I love the depth of what you use your ambassadors to take parents around and of course students and so forth when they're new. you had mentioned, you referenced, it's not like the movies or whatever. It's funny because I made a note of that. Just kind of an aside and just kind of fun, but favorite movie about schools or in a school?
Chris (27:49.42)Wow, yeah, that's, there's several. I love Remember the Titans. Now it's more of a sports movie, but it dealt with how school became a focal point of helping a community overcome adversity. So Remember the Titans, but Mr. Holland's Opus is always, that's an older movie probably for some, but I enjoy it because the impact of what a single person can have is significant. So those are probably two that jump out.
Rick Sola (28:13.149)Yeah, very good. I almost went with the Mount Rushmore. Like what would be your Mount Rushmore? like, yeah, you can go. It's so varied. And I'll share one that I have. I mean, this is not nearly as profound of a movie at all. So, you know, don't be disappointed in my answer here. But one that I've really enjoyed, I enjoyed it because a student shared it with me. said, my first year teaching, Mr. So you've got to watch this movie. It's 2004. You've got to watch this movie. I'm like, what is it? Napoleon Dynamite.
Chris (28:39.022)you
Chris (28:42.808)Yeah, that's good one too.
Rick Sola (28:43.935)And she gave me the DVD to go home and watch it and I fell asleep. I thought it was the most, I thought it was stupidest movie. Like what in the world? And for some reason I gave it another chance. Maybe she told me like, you gotta watch it again. And then all of a sudden it was just like click. I love it and now I've got kids that are old enough and we've watched it and they had the same reaction the first time. Like, dad, this is terrible.
Chris (29:09.794)Yes. Yeah.
Rick Sola (29:11.025)And then and now we watch it. We've probably seen it three times together and that we just exchange quotes from the movie. You know, but it's not exactly Mr. Holland's opus, but you know, it's a.
Chris (29:17.87)yeah.
Chris (29:24.43)But it still is a movie that gives you some good, you know, enjoyment and laughs. So yeah, it has a good purpose. That's a good one.
Rick Sola (29:28.445)Yeah, yeah. Well, hey, real quick, what's on tap for your PD today?
Chris (29:36.014)Well, it's a district design. so like all math teachers in Blue Valley will go to a certain location, like a high school. All social studies teacher will go to a different location. So it's really where our district, like coordinating teachers will talk about, it's more content based this morning. So we don't actually have them here in our building, but there are staff, we do, but it's like, you know, teachers from one content throughout the district. So we won't see our staff until after spring break. you know, we told them yesterday, you know, as we saw them,
Rick Sola (29:52.07)Okay. Okay.
Rick Sola (30:02.887)Okay.
Chris (30:05.968)like we've had a great third quarter of you guys. And when we come back, I've told people, think April, I know it's March when we come back, but April soon, I think April has 60 days in it. I really do. Because the month of April for schools, like you mentioned, there's no days off. It feels so long, but.
Rick Sola (30:16.969)You
Rick Sola (30:22.559)Yeah.
Chris (30:25.134)So that's where we're going to have to be creative. You know, know state testing is going on. We're going have to be creative with ways to find enjoyment, you know, kind of do things out off the script to break the mold to make sure our kids still find value in coming each day. So we're brainstorming some ideas.
Rick Sola (30:40.275)Yeah. You know, one thing that was kind of lost on me, but how early the Royals home opener is, cause we always do a cookout and kind of a fun, it's March 27th. That's, that's the week we come back. And so yeah, it usually is. So I thought of that last night. Like, my gosh, like we usually do some things like we've got to kind of get that train going a little bit because yeah, it's coming real quick. Hey,
Chris (30:50.572)wow. That is the week we can, I was thinking of April.
Chris (31:02.382)it's coming, it's coming quick.
Rick Sola (31:08.061)But before we go here, and you did a lot of this already, a lot of great things going on at Aubrey Bend and in Blue Valley with you, but just a chance to brag on Aubrey Bend and the people you work with and the kids you relate with every day.
Chris (31:23.254)I just feel fortunate. Great school to be a part of. Our staff is truly amazing. What I mean by that is they are they really care about kids, but they do value the collaboration and they want to get better as educators. They do not like the status quo. They want to get better. They're willing to learn. They have a growth mindset, but I just appreciate so much how they always put kids first. And you know, if a kid's going through some challenges outside of school, you know, they're willing to adjust.
for that student, the teaching and learning, the assignments, you know, and they do things to help students navigate through this time of their lives. So I just really appreciate our staff. They're tremendous people. They care about kids. our students are amazing young leaders. I don't have any concerns about our society in 10 to 20 years. The kids that we have in our buildings, and not just Aubrey Bend, but throughout Kansas, the young people I've seen and work with, they're just, they really
have so many valuable skills and they're making mistakes at times but that they're learning how to become a better person, how to work with people, but they're also their skill set is so high, so much higher than I was when I was their age for sure. And then our parents, think our parents are truly, they care so much and they value education.
for us as building leaders, it's always how do you make the student staff and parents, how do you bring them together? You know, how do you find those connections? And we're really, I'm just really proud of what we've done as a building in the last few years to get to where we are now. know, three fourths of the way through the year, basically, this year has had some challenges, but we found ways to continue to be together and to make things happen for our kids and find great success. And it's not one person, it's a team effort. And that's what I appreciate most.
Rick Sola (33:12.615)You just said you have no concern about the future 10 to 20 years from now with our kids. And what a powerful message because that's pretty much the opposite of what usually gets. I say usually what seems to be blasted. Sometimes the loudest message isn't the majority. You know I'm saying. But to hear that and to come from a building principal, I just love that message because there's so many good things. We just talking about it. So many good things going on in these schools and these kids.
They impress me day in and day out. can't believe the things that they can do, the talents they have, the leadership qualities that I think back when I was in seventh or eighth grade, I'm like, holy cow, these kids are leaps and bounds ahead of where I was.
Chris (33:53.347)For sure. Yes. I guess I would say, you know, I believe in our kids is what I would say. I believe so much in our students and I believe, like you said, what they're capable of. It amazes me their skill set and their strengths. They're very resilient among young learners for sure.
Rick Sola (34:12.393)Hey, one thing I'll close out with and I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I'll drop it into the show notes. But I came across this literally this morning and I forwarded it to myself so I wouldn't forget it. So that'd be something good to share with staff. But it goes along really well with what you said. But do you remember Tim Wakefield, baseball pitcher?
Chris (34:29.324)Yes, yes, yeah.
Rick Sola (34:30.011)knuckleballer and he passed away a couple of years ago from brain cancer or something but he was an amazing knuckleball pitcher but it's a real long quote I won't read the whole thing but his wife posted recently one of his final kind of messages that he had typed out journal entries or whatever
And he talks about kind of life and you don't get where you are today without the people around you and so forth. But he finishes it with he says, I've also learned that it doesn't matter how much money you've made, how big your house is, or what kind of car you drive. What matters most is did you make a difference in someone else's life? And I forwarded that to myself going into April because sometimes we need that reminder that you are daily having that opportunity to make a difference in someone's life and at the
you know, at the end here, as Mr. Wakefield talks about it, you know, that's really what's important. And that's what's amazing about our profession, our education profession, is that daily opportunity to, and especially in middle school, because it's the quirky fork in the road, maybe, I don't know what, but it's, they're figuring a lot of things out. Or they think they have figured things out, then they realize no way.
Chris (35:35.177)Chris (35:42.444)They are.
Rick Sola (35:46.526)Ha ha ha.
Chris (35:46.95)It's a hard time for sure in a young person's life. We use the phrase with our staff a lot about we need to make moments matter. And I remind our staff how, you know, that 30 second conversation you have with a young person in the hallway or in your classroom might be something they remember for the rest of their lives. And so never take for granted the impact that you can have just in a 30 second conversation with just being very sincere and specific with feedback or praise. And our educators do this all the time. And that's where some
Sometimes like you said, we forget the impact we're making is significant and we have to find that joy in each day because it's there. We just have to make sure we capitalize upon it.
Rick Sola (36:26.045)Yeah. Well, Chris, thank you so much for taking this early morning day and sharing a little bit about you and Aubrey Band. It sounds like some really great things. And I just want to wish you all the best in the fourth quarter and a nice, smooth end to the school year.
Chris (36:42.562)Thank you, Rick. I appreciate being on the podcast and I hope all schools and principals have a tremendous fourth quarter and that we continue to learn together. Thanks so much.
 
 

CC#34: Mrs. Laurel Scott - Haven Grade School

In this episode of Cool Coffee with Kansas Principals, host Rick Sola interviews Laurel Scott, the principal of Haven Grade School. They discuss Laurel's unique journey from growing up in Alaska to becoming a principal in Kansas, the community of Haven, and the challenges of student recognition in schools. Laurel shares her insights on communication with parents, the transition from secondary to elementary education, and offers valuable advice for aspiring principals. In this conversation, Principal Scott discusses the importance of creating a community of fans within the educational environment, emphasizing the need to celebrate and engage students and staff. She shares insights on innovative programs like the bee club and student council at Haven Elementary, highlighting the significance of community involvement and support. The discussion also touches on future aspirations for student engagement and the unique culture at Haven that fosters a sense of belonging and pride.
(full show transcript below)
Connect with Laurel Scott
X: @barefootpond
email: lscott@havenschools.com
Laurel's "Under the Umbrella" article (page 24)
Book: Banana Ball
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Leave show suggestions, guest recommendations, questions HERE!
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Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee
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Contact the host: @MrRickSola, rfsola@olatheschools.org, or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com
The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
Read more about the KPA HERE.
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Chapters (time stamps do not account for Cool Coffee intro)
00:00 Introduction to Principal Laurel Scott02:58 Haven, Kansas: A Community Overview05:51 Journey into Education and Administration09:10 Transitioning from Secondary to Elementary Education11:55 The Importance of Communication with Parents14:52 Advice for Aspiring Principals18:07 Challenges of Student Recognition and Celebrating Success21:34 Celebrating Community and Creating Fans24:24 Engaging Students Through Clubs and Activities29:08 Future Aspirations for Student Engagement36:42 Bragging on Haven: A Community of Support
 
Full Show Transcript (AI generated)
Rick Sola (00:00.923)All right, hello, and we are here again with another episode of Cool Coffee with Kansas Principals. We have another featured principal today doing great things in the state of Kansas, Mrs. Laurel Scott, principal of Haven Grade School in Haven, Kansas, USD 312, home of the Wildcats. Welcome.
Laurel Scott (00:20.59)Well, thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Rick Sola (00:22.877)Yeah, it's great having you and home of the Wildcats. I am home with the Wildcats as well here at the school I call home. very cool. Are you a K-State Wildcat by chance?
Laurel Scott (00:34.222)Actually, I'm neither K-State or KU. I am not from Kansas. I was born and raised in Alaska. So actually, if I had to choose a school, you know, that would be my school, would be UAA, Home of the Seawolves. So I actually attended Wichita State. if a Kansas school, I would definitely be a Shocker.
Rick Sola (00:48.89)wow.
Rick Sola (00:54.545)Okay, as a K-Stater, I can handle that. You know, if it's KU, it's like a different ball game, I think. But no, love the Jayhawk people that I work with, but yeah, certainly K-State proud. But grew up in Alaska, that's awesome. Very unique. How are the schools out there? Very similar, very different.
Laurel Scott (01:10.402)Yeah.
Laurel Scott (01:16.518)I grew up in Anchorage, so big city. It's about the size population-wise of Wichita. Obviously geographically it's much more compact, but lots of big schools there. I went to one of the larger schools in Anchorage and my mom was my eighth grade PE teacher. That's a different level of, I always say it's a different level of trauma, but it was a great experience growing up. So yeah, I just, I...
Grew up there and joined the Marine Corps after high school and worked on fixed helicopters while I was in the Marine Corps. And then I came back here. My husband is from Wellington and we attended Wichita State together. He's an engineer by trade and I got into education and the rest as they say is history.
Rick Sola (02:03.763)That's awesome. actually, of course, this is an audio only podcast, but I can see the Marine Corps emblem right behind you there. So that's really cool. Thank you for your service there for the US military. Very awesome. Haven, give us like a 30 second nutshell of Haven, the city. I know you're near Wichita, right? Is that northwest of Wichita?
Laurel Scott (02:25.792)Yeah, yes, so.
Right off K96, I always described if you're going to the state fair, we are the gas stop in between Wichita and the state fair. It's a little town right in between and we serve three different counties. We serve Reno, Sedgwick and Harvey County. We pull as far geographically from South Hutchinson. We go down clear down to Cheney Lake. We go over to Mount Hope, which is closer to Andale and as far west as Partridge. So we have a very, very large
geographic district. It makes it a lot of fun, a lot of different challenges, but it's a great place to be. It's a great place to call home. I've lived here for about 11 years and been the principal here for five.
Rick Sola (03:11.539)That's great. Awesome. So you actually kind of got into it. Actually, I was going to ask you Haven. I've not been to Haven, I don't think. But if I were, what is like the must-eat-at restaurant in Haven?
Laurel Scott (03:24.91)Well, we actually have we have a couple different restaurants we have Daisy Joe's which is like your traditional burger joint It's really really good. I would compare it to like a five guys. The fries are very very similar They're fresh cut daily We also have a little coffee shop that serves like little sandwiches and stuff like that. And then we recently opened a restaurant. It's called curbsides to go. It's open Wednesday Thursdays and Fridays For like lunch and dinner and it's really really good
good, but it's like a takeout type style meal and it's good. So it's lots of fun.
Rick Sola (04:01.331)Is there any one of those or other places where the students gravitate toward where after school that's the place to go?
Laurel Scott (04:07.374)I would probably say Daisy Joe's. mean, this year ice cream shop, so they're open late nights when we have basketball games and football games and do lots of things like that to support the community.
Rick Sola (04:19.933)Great. Actually, you brought up basketball and I actually saw Haven is having a really good year this year, aren't they? On the boys' side.
Laurel Scott (04:26.094)Yeah, our boys are still going strong. Yeah, so they beat Heston the other night. And so I think our next game for a sub state is Wednesday night. Unfortunately, our girls lost. It was a really tough loss and it was a really close game. We just kind of couldn't pull through in the last little bit.
Rick Sola (04:43.463)Well, congratulations. You mentioned Heston. I actually have a nephew that's a senior on that team. And so I know that they're both really good teams. And I was looking at the sub-state brackets and they're in separate sub-states. anyway, good luck to the Haven Wildcats out there. You kind of touched on a little bit of your kind of road in education. What got you into administration? What was that turning point where you went from teacher to
admin.
Laurel Scott (05:13.794)Well, I'm a history, I'm secondary history, so the fact that I'm in a grade school is very, very different. And I would tell you my department members from my previous building, which is 259, it's Wichita High School East, they would always kinda tease me and say that I was probably meant to be an elementary school teacher. I just love office supplies and post-it notes and all the colors and all the things. And they used to give me a hard time. I decided I wanted to get my master's.
in curriculum and instruction just as a way to kind of perfect my craft and improve upon.
my what's my purpose and what is my passion. So I really enjoyed that and I wasn't really sure where I was gonna go with that other than I just knew I wanted to be a better instructional, just better instructionally and better in the classroom. And then, you know, I just was kind of thinking, well, do I wanna be department chair? Do I wanna do administration? And I thought, well, I kind of like that as part of it. And I had some really good principals who were really good role models for me and just kind of guided me.
As one of my students said the other day, said, helps me get out of situations. And you know, and being an administration, we help a lot of kids in a lot of different situations. So just having that leadership in my life and having that guidance. And so I just decided I'm gonna do administration and see where that takes me. And when I was finishing my program, this position opened up and I thought, well, I didn't ever think that I would want to be in my children's.
building because I always said I wanted to give them autonomy but I thought shoot I'm gonna just put in for it and see where it goes and I interviewed right at the very start of COVID.
Laurel Scott (07:05.326)And this is home. I I live right outside of town and I was driving in and my kids were attending here. So my eyes were a little bit open at the students that we serve here in Haven. I would have told you that it's just this pretty little, cutesy little town and we still have some of the same challenges that other schools have, that any school has really.
And, but it just, it just is a great place to be. It's a great place to work. It's a great place to raise your kids and to know like, I'm, you know, I'm supporting my community and I'm helping, you know, my kids' and, you know, helping them out of situations too. So that's kind of how I ended up here. And like I said, I never thought I would be here in Haven, but I've loved every minute of it.
Rick Sola (07:55.187)That's great. You know, it's been brought up multiple times, different principals on this podcast and talk about being the principal at the building with their kids. And I'm one of those. it just makes me think that might be a good episode. Just because I think everything you described are all the things that I remember feeling like, know, kind of should I? this the best thing for them? And so anyway, that's really neat. And I'm a former social studies secondary as well. So, but the idea of being in elementary
Laurel Scott (08:08.865)Yeah.
Rick Sola (08:24.787)I love the elementary. I've got an elementary kid myself and going in there, but you know, that does not seem like, that's an adjustment I would imagine.
Laurel Scott (08:34.402)Yeah, and they asked me, I remember that was a question in my interview actually, how do you think you will transition from the secondary level to the elementary school level? And my answer, and I still hold true to this.
When we think about brain development and the development of the prefrontal cortex, there's not much difference between an eight-year-old and a 16-year-old when we talk about brain development. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of differences and we see them, but so the problems are the same. The things that they face are the same. The academic challenges are the same. They're just in smaller packages.
Rick Sola (09:09.939)That's really great. I like that. Yeah, the elementary still kind of scares me a little bit for where I'm at, but...
Laurel Scott (09:14.594)Well, know, kindergarten scares me a little bit, but I will tell you this. If you want to have compliments, if you are having a down day, go down to kindergarten. They will tell you they love your outfit, they love your earrings. Did you just get a haircut? How beautiful you look. mean, that is like, if you're needing some encouragement, go down to the six year olds. They've got it for you all day long.
Rick Sola (09:39.197)There is such a special energy about elementary schools. Every once in a while, throughout the year, I need to go down to our feeder elementaries. And you're right, kids, they just come right up to you. They have no reservations. They'll just say, you know, whatever. And it's one of the favorite things I do every year is when I go down to work with our fifth graders who are coming up to the middle school. there is a special energy with elementary.
Laurel Scott (09:51.297)Mm-hmm.
Rick Sola (10:05.201)And you mentioned that you started at the start of COVID. So we have that in common, starting in a building at that time. That's a unique challenge in and of itself. I'm interested in, because this is also something that's been recurring. I think it'd be really interesting to really have people share about this. you talked about the good role models and mentors that you've had along the way. Was there anything that any of them shared with you as far as advice in particular that really stuck with you that maybe it
kind of formed your early admin or maybe it's still with you and driving you today.
Laurel Scott (10:38.68)First story always wins, that would be it. If I knew and so there was one of our administrators.
Growing up and I ended up in her office a lot and would tell me she said boy You better go tell your mom because I'm calling her I'm gonna let her know but if you get home and that was kind of what I learned if I can tell my story First at least I've said well, this is what I was thinking when I made a really poor decision So that's something that I've that stuck with me not only as an administrator I mean now as a parent number one, I want my kids to tell me that too I want them to say hey, I made a mistake today And this is what I do about it
Rick Sola (11:15.091)So does that drive your, like, when you work with a student who's made a poor choice that you're going to the first call, you're going to call home before they have a chance to get home? that?
Laurel Scott (11:25.686)Yeah, well, yeah, it does. And that's the thing I tell our classroom teachers too, like communicate. Like parents want the opportunity to be a parent. I want the opportunity to be a parent. There's nothing more discouraging to me when I call a parent and I say, well, you know, we've had several conversations and they say, this is the first time I'm hearing about this. Why is this the first time? Same thing with parent teacher conferences. know, my mom being my PE teacher, parent teacher conferences are this week. I'm going to go in. there anything?
I need to know before I go meet with your teachers and I would it used to give me the most anxiety I can remember just stressing What did I do that? I forgot to tell my mom like what story are they gonna tell? That I didn't like it wasn't a big deal to me and it's just stuck in that teachers crawl And so that just used to give me so much anxiety So I always try and you know, even when I was in the classroom just telling teachers just telling my students It's okay. Hey, I'm gonna have a conference with you beforehand We're gonna talk about it and I'm gonna share exactly that with your parents. There's no sir. There should be
know surprises. And so again, first story wins and then there shouldn't be any surprises. So our parents should know what's, you know, how they're doing in their kids, how their kids are doing in school and there shouldn't be any surprises. And if we communicate well and do our due diligence in that, then it usually goes pretty well.
Rick Sola (12:48.017)Yeah, there's always a balance I struggle with kind of depending on the situation, maybe a low level thing. think as a parent, I would like to know this. This is important. You you got called to the principals and you're having this conversation. And then there's the other side that sometimes like, well, you know, give them a chance to, you know, kind of work through it and that sort of thing. But there's definitely, definitely a balance there. But I err on that side of caution, too. I would rather call home, have the conversation and.
be able to share how the conversation went here and invite that discussion at home and then hey, call back if you have any questions and that sort of thing.
Laurel Scott (13:22.958)Yeah.
And that's just, and I always say that too. And that's the thing I am, I'm so fortunate to have my kids in my building, but I'm like, hey, my kids aren't perfect either. As a parent, I would want to know. Cause again, I want to have those conversations like serious, like again, like just little things, even as like you have a negative lunch balance and you pack your lunch every day. So what's going on here, bud? You know, why are we, what's happening with our lunch? Well, I forget it on the playground and then I go out and I can't find it or I left it in the car or things like that. So just again, I just always
want the opportunity to parent my kids and even in this building sometimes I don't know stuff and I want to know and I want to be that parent that's involved but if we don't give parents the opportunity and don't invite them to the table.
Rick Sola (14:06.151)Yeah. So there's a principal who or aspiring principal, know, or someone listening to this out of Wichita State or Baker or whatever. What advice would you give them? You talked about some advice that you had gotten. First story wins. What advice would you give someone as they are aspiring to the chair of principal?
Laurel Scott (14:28.896)So they're interviewing or they are thinking maybe they want to be an administrator or?
Rick Sola (14:35.507)Let's go with they are about to assume the role of principal or they're trying to actually interview for a principalship.
Laurel Scott (14:42.83)Okay, okay. I would say seek first to understand is a big one. Listen first.
And that's always something I can, you when you think about things that don't go well, whether, you know, you had a crisis drill, you had a fire drill, something that didn't go well, some professional development, you know, in any situation like that, people will say, hey, I need more communication. I need I need more of that. And and I would say that would be creating those opportunities for that, for that follow up, for the for those critical conversations that you can have. One of the things that I've done recently is I felt
you know, like I always say, hey guys, if you need to talk to me, I will make myself available for you. that's really important to me, but what I find is that I will see people walk past my office and they'll kind of pop in. And if I've got somebody here, they'll just keep walking. So creating opportunities for people to schedule those appointments with me. So I use an app for that.
and so they can just go in and it links their calendar to mine and they I just have a standing 10 minute appointment and I go to them that way no matter what it is I've made time for them in my day and it usually it works out pretty well because they are able to say hey this was a problem for me or this was a frustration
And then they're not waiting for me to either get out of an IEP or, you know, another meeting with where someone did just pop in. It's scheduled and it's intentional. just, you know, see when you think about those first year, your first year principal, or you're getting ready to come into the building and you you're wanting to do this, just create lots of opportunities for staff to come to you, set boundaries with them. But ultimately, just try and be the best listener that you can and just, you know, assume positive intent with people.
Laurel Scott (16:35.376)parents, students, and staff and just be a listener.
Rick Sola (16:41.873)Yeah, you just said assume positive intent. That's a big one. And there's times where I'm sure we're in the role where you're like, my gosh, but almost always people's heart are in the right place. And sometimes things just go one way or the other. And so I really like that. What's the name of the app that you just referenced there?
Laurel Scott (16:56.142)Mm-hmm.
Laurel Scott (17:01.64)I use Calendly and
I know you can do it through Google calendars, but Calendly is really, really easy for me. There is a free version. I pay for it. It's not that much. it just helps me, especially scheduling your evals. How much time do I spend like, hey, does this time work? Or I have these three times. Sorry, that one's gone now. It's like, just go in. I've blocked out the right amount of time I need for your observation, and I've blocked out the follow-up. You schedule it. You schedule it.
when it works for you. So that's really nice.
Rick Sola (17:37.799)Yeah. So I want to transition actually the as we record this, it's very timely because like earlier today we all got an email from under the umbrella in your article, which I'm looking at right here, but I haven't read it yet. It came out a couple hours ago, but the challenges of student recognition and finding meaningful ways to celebrate success. And so it's very timely. We had some things to talk about. This certainly goes right along with that. And speaking of which, I mean, we
Appreciate your persistence with connecting here our schedules, because we have had some false starts. I think this is originally like a month ago that we were trying to get together and talk. the job, things happen. And then we had like 58 snow days in a row. that, yeah. Yeah. And where I'm at right now, they're talking about a big old storm again coming here in a couple of days. So.
Laurel Scott (18:24.908)In the month of January.
Laurel Scott (18:32.75)Yeah.
Rick Sola (18:34.015)But anyway, I appreciate you weathering through that. Not necessarily pun intended there, but you just had the USA under the USA Kansas under the umbrella article out. let's hear a sneak preview. And then I will put the link to the under the umbrella into our show notes so you can find it. There's a lot of good articles in there from people who have been featured along the way. So what can you tell us about it?
Laurel Scott (18:59.372)Yeah, it's funny, Stacey Green's article is also in there this month and she and I did not talk or visit about that before at all and then we shared our articles and they're actually on kind of some similar stuff and that's just celebrating your people, whether that's stakeholders of any kind, but students and staff, just the people that work in your building, the people that are there and staff recognition is actually something that I've figured out. It's pretty easy to do, create some different avenues.
for staff recognition. But student recognition is something that I continually struggle with in making it meaningful because I can reward kids for, you know.
You know, GPA, you know, I can award those honor roll kids and we do, we send home certificates. But then I struggle with attendance awards because you know, lot of times, know, kids are, they're missing for legitimate reasons. They are legitimately sick. Also, I have kids with braces on, orthodontist appointments are really, really hard to schedule. Certainly during that time that's after school or before school. So whether it's orthodontist, eye appointments, you know, things like that. So I struggle with perfect attendance awards.
as well. And then again, when kids are sick, want them home. you know, they need to be home. They need to rest when they're ill. So just struggling with that. And then, you know, then there's the student of the month challenge and whether, you know, are we recognizing the kids that deserve it or are we recognizing the kids that need it? And then when we recognize everyone, does that dilute the meaning behind it? So just some of the things that I struggle with as an administrator in a building where I really want to champion those kids,
but finding the right way to do it.
Rick Sola (20:42.575)I love all of those topics because there's so much just philosophical angles from it and people can have very valid reasons to come at it from both ways like recognizing those who need it versus those who've earned it or whatever. And maybe that's the social studies background there too because I like I'm hearing that I'm like yeah that'd be an interesting conversation because attendance is really tricky and I found that this year and I know there's a lot of talk about
chronic absenteeism and things, but you hit the nail on the head. People do get sick and sometimes they get sick for an extended amount of times and when it's on top of some ortho appointments or maybe they had something come up that did pull them from the building. The next thing you know, you look at those numbers and it can present a conversation to be had, but it gets tricky to say the least.
Laurel Scott (21:12.45)Mm-hmm.
Laurel Scott (21:34.924)It's challenge. So yeah, that's kind of what it's about. Again, just I try and think about things that I'm going through and things that I'm working through in my mind and in my brain when I'm writing an article. so that's something that I've really been working on this year. And it's not a challenge that we were given by our superintendent. Just how do you celebrate your people? And that was the question. So I read a really good book.
the owner of the Savannah Bananas, the baseball team, the guy that created Banana Ball. And I actually don't have it right now, but so it's called Fans First and it's about creating fans and everything that we do and just creating those fans and not customers because it kind of references like the Blockbuster and how Blockbuster had a lot of customers but they didn't have fans and they didn't adopt what they were doing.
to create fans, but just some of the things like Chick-fil-A, how they are really big on...
when the phones come to night ring.
Rick Sola (22:40.595)You
Laurel Scott (22:41.678)They come into my office. but just Chick-fil-A has changed the, you know, it's not no problem. Those are two negatives together, but it's my pleasure. Or, you know, Starbucks, when they have meetings, they leave an empty chair and that chair represents the customer. So just creating fans from our people, from our community, and that we really truly want people to be a fan of our district and a fan of our building. And so what does that take to create people who are fans? Because fans are a boil. Fans are, you know, they're
die-hard, you know, Chiefs fans, their die-hard KU, die-hard K-State, they will do anything. They will, you know, travel miles, stay up super late watching a game, or, you know, study the draft picks. Those are fans. Those are, that's who you want. So how do we take that and adapt it to what we're doing here in education and create those fans? So I think the step for, first step for that is, you know, recognizing and celebrating your people, you know, whether it's your alumni that have come back to work in your district. People have a lot of places that they can work and
and things that they can do. But if they choose to come back and attend the school that they grew up in, that speaks volumes about your fan base. So again, I would highly recommend that book.
Rick Sola (23:55.227)Yeah, I'm gonna I'll find it. I have not heard of it. I'm gonna put it in to our show notes as well. I mean, just by how you've described it, it sounds like a really interesting read and definitely something relevant for all of us here in the school. So, you know, one thing we had talked about here a little while ago now, but is in Haven, you've got some things going on surrounding clubs at the elementary school and
I would love to hear just a little bit of kind of a nutshell of how it works at Haven and then what you see as the values. I know clubs can really be so powerful in schools and for kids and motivators and so forth. And so you talk about bragging on your people, brag on your club program out in Haven.
Laurel Scott (24:43.96)Well, and this is something that we're still working on and we're still developing. It kind of, we knew that...
We wanted to have a student council in our building and we just didn't have one. I don't know if we have had one in the past, but as long as my kiddos have been going to Haven, we have not. And so my oldest is an eighth grader. And again, I have several staff members who went here and didn't have student council then. So just kind of thinking about what we wanted that to look like and just reaching out to other places. But it actually started with some student interest in B's.
Rick Sola (25:18.301)like bumblebees. honeybees, okay.
Laurel Scott (25:19.502)but more particular honey bees.
There's several grants that you can get to get bees and I had reached out to a couple different teachers I'm like, my gosh you guys I want to get bees. How do we do it? And it kind of took a little bit of like trial and error to find the right person to be the bee club sponsor But one of our kindergarten teachers her name is Cory Kroll just said absolutely. This sounds awesome Let's do it. So Every year in the fall, we have a farm day. We actually have a school farm. That's not very far from here
And so we, our FFA and Ag programs bring in all sorts of speakers and just kind of present on what they're doing and community leaders and things like that. Well, one of the presenters was the Prairie Hills Middle School Bee Club. So that is Bueller. So one of our surrounding districts has a bee club. So they came out and presented on that and our kids were so just inspired. They're this is so cool. We could do that. We want to do that. Then at our fall festival, a local
I
They do tree trimming business, also has bees and they kind of had a little bee station and we're selling local honey. And again, our kids are so excited. They just wanted to do it. But we had some steps to jump through first, which was really absolutely like this was the most like the history teacher and we just get super excited because it just taught our kids some civics and how to be civically engaged as a student. So we had to first we needed to present our idea to the middle school science teacher.
Laurel Scott (26:54.476)who lives next door to where we were going to put our bees and she was all about it, super excited. So our little bee club went over and that was their first presentation was to her. And then they went to the school board and got permission from the school board. And then they had to actually go to a city council meeting where they had and they had to figure out how to get added to the agenda and how, you know, to have that idea sponsored. They had their lawyers there and they presented their idea of changing our
Rick Sola (27:19.734)Ugh.
Laurel Scott (27:23.446)our town regulations on owning bees in the city limits because it was not permitted. So they did that and they voted to amend some of those regulations so that we have an educational exemption to allow bees for obviously the educational purpose of it. And so pretty cool there. So we have had our bees for almost a year now and we checked on them not too long ago and they were doing pretty good. it obviously when it gets warm, they come out. And so we have some support.
who have helped us just keep that up, because it's a lot of work. I used to think, not yet, not yet, but we will be. But just learning what our bees need and how much, like how much.
Rick Sola (27:57.329)Are you producing honey? Okay. Okay.
Laurel Scott (28:07.758)how much foliage do you have to have available for bees to even produce honey? Not just talking about making it through the winter, but I thought it was like I just set up the white boxes and you just leave them there. There's so much more to it than that. Bugs, parasites, all the things that we're learning about. So that kind of got our feet wet with student organizations and then moving into our student council. And we started it this year and we had kids apply. They had to get letters of recommendation and letters of reference from people and it couldn't,
people in the building as well as outside the building had to write a letter for these kids. And again, just the things that they're doing and they meet.
every other Friday and one of our counselor leads it and they're just involved, just learning how to be involved and we're learning right along with them on how it should work and how it could work and how we could do it better. So it's pretty cool to see our kids step into leadership roles and just become ambassadors for the building.
Rick Sola (29:08.529)Yeah, really, really cool. You talked about the B's and kind of the launching point of other things. Where would you hope to see three years from now Haven Elementary School as it relates to clubs?
Laurel Scott (29:22.008)Well, I'd like us to have more opportunities and just for our fifth and sixth graders to just be engaged and involved in our community and what that looks like for each kid could be different. But engaging our staff members and where they find interests. I actually had a staff member, she's a Horizon Award winner this year. She brought me a book for my sixth grader because they love to read together and my daughter just finished a book and so the teacher comes down and
hey I got this book for your daughter. She's gonna she really enjoyed it and Frank she was telling me about it so now this is another one like that. So just you know and she's talked about having a book club and creating those opportunities so just how can we get kids excited about being at school and give them something other some other drive to look forward to that gets them in the doors and keeps them engaged and whether that's band or or we have an advanced art program or students have some choice in that or a book club.
or being involved in student council or getting to work with the bees. So what is it that brings kids here? Because I know that I love coming to my job, but what is it that keeps me here? And making sure that we're asking our students, what is it that brings you here? What is it that gets you excited about being here at school and how can we make sure that we're providing those opportunities for kids?
Rick Sola (30:44.167)Yeah, you mentioned a lot of different examples of ways kids can be connected to school and not every example is going to resonate with every kid, but hopefully at least one example will resonate with all the kids, you know, and that's, it's really the power of kind of, it's almost outside the box thinking basically. I mean, bring in bees. Not every elementary school has got a beehive producing honey out there, which I find awesome by the way, because I love honey and some authentic honey being made there.
Laurel Scott (30:56.568)Mm-hmm.
Laurel Scott (31:13.708)Yeah.
Rick Sola (31:13.709)is fantastic, but it's such a powerful thing for IC as a school community and so forth. And the fact that they had kind of a real life civics lesson too and the things that they'll remember with that.
Laurel Scott (31:23.81)Yeah.
That I think was the coolest thing and then our local paper wrote an article about the kids and just the work that they were doing. So then the day that we actually got the bees, it was pretty exciting. So it's a lot of fun.
Rick Sola (31:39.347)Great. Well, hey, before we wrap up here, I'm going to give you some quick hitters. then you talk about bragging on your people. I want to give you a chance to really just brag on Haven and kind of leave us with that. But some quick hitters here. Favorite movie.
Laurel Scott (31:43.266)Okay.
Laurel Scott (31:53.61)gosh, sweet home Alabama.
Rick Sola (31:57.715)Okay, I have seen that movie, yes. Okay, very good. No comments on this here, but yeah. Okay, last concert you saw.
Laurel Scott (31:58.25)What?
Laurel Scott (32:06.729)Yeah
Laurel Scott (32:11.918)I went to Morgan Wallen in Kansas City. No, no Benson Boone. Benson Boone was the I went to Benson Boone with my my big girls in Tulsa.
Rick Sola (32:21.925)Okay, yeah, Morgan Wallen, I did not go to that, but that was like huge out here and so many students were going to that.
Laurel Scott (32:28.01)I have not, I've been to more concerts this year too than I've probably been to in five years.
Rick Sola (32:35.503)Yeah, I like to go to concerts. don't go all that often. Ben Folds is, I'm a big Ben Folds fan and he is coming to the KC Symphony, which is a really cool experience and I'm to catch that over spring break. But anyway, a typical lunch, and I'm talking about at school. What does your typical lunch look like?
Laurel Scott (32:40.6)Mm-hmm.
Laurel Scott (32:52.642)Okay, well my assistant principal and I have a list of our top five, okay? We have amazing food here. Our nutrition services, like they do a phenomenal job. Every Friday, by the way, we have biscuits and gravy for staff every Friday morning. So that is like, like if you wanna know, like just.
Rick Sola (33:11.613)That's incredible.
Laurel Scott (33:13.198)Come on, come to Haven. will buy you biscuits and gravy on a Friday morning. One of the things I love about that too is we always have or we try to get the high school athletes to come over. So they'll come over, they have biscuits and gravy too with us and just hang out with the little kids. Again, we're in a community where we're just so close. The high school is just the next block over. They walk over, come have breakfast with our bus kids and we open our doors to kids at 745. The merry-go-round on those days,
Rick Sola (33:29.456)gosh.
Laurel Scott (33:43.144)gets a little bit crazy because those guys come over there and they really get it going. But that's fun. It's a fun time for us. But for lunch, man, if it's got gravy on it, I'm there. Like if it's chicken nuggets, mashed potatoes, always a good day. Crispy dough is always another really good day. And then we have a phenomenal salad bar for staff. So if I'm not really feeling it, Super Nachos, again, one of my top faves. But we keep, my assistant principal and I
Rick Sola (34:05.703)Wow, okay.
Laurel Scott (34:13.038)he and I keep a rolling list of, this is a favorite.
Rick Sola (34:16.581)Yeah, that's that's really good. Now is it are you eating lunch in your office? Is it quiet? Or like you standing up in a lunch room somewhere and
Laurel Scott (34:23.246)I get up pretty early, but so I'm ready for lunch. I usually like I try and eat early because if I don't sit down and eat early Then it doesn't happen. So usually I'm eating like at 1030, but usually before 11 1030 1045 I'll grab my lunch Sometimes I eat with the kids but that's always you know, you know, it's always you know hit or miss on if you get lunch or not and
depending on if we have lunch duty that day or not. But I always sit down. I try and sit down because I'm just not coordinated enough to stand up and eat.
Rick Sola (34:55.709)Yeah.
Rick Sola (35:00.941)I have been told here that I eat like a toddler because I tend to have a peanut butter sandwich and a cheese stick and I'm like walking and you know, but your lunch and breakfast sounds amazing. And I think it's awesome too. bet your kids just love having the high school kids there. I mean that is really cool.
Laurel Scott (35:12.297)Yeah, we have
Laurel Scott (35:16.622)It's pretty cool. So we did a thing too. So our PTO, we have a pretty awesome PTO. We call it Wake Up with Wildcats. We have it a couple of times a year. We bring in Daylight Donuts. And let me tell you, Daylight Donuts is pretty particular on their donut pickup. I had said, well, we'll just pick them up the day before. They're like, no, no, no, no, You can't do that. And I was like, what do mean I can't pick them up the day before? They're like, you'll have to come that morning. And they were legit serious. They were not letting me pick up those donuts the day before. So luckily I had a couple of staff members who said, we'll grab them in the morning on our way. No big deal.
So we have a Wake Up with Wildcats Day and it's just come in, have a donut, have some coffee with whomever you want to bring. It doesn't really matter, just really it's, you know, just hanging out with the kids.
And on that day we have a large bus population and sometimes that just doesn't work for families. So we bring the high school athletes over and they have donuts. So we have two locations. You can have donuts with your parent or your grandparent, your aunt or uncle, your neighbor, or you can have it with the high schoolers. And at some point I'm sure the other kids are gonna realize they'd rather have it with the high school basketball team because those guys are a lot of fun.
Rick Sola (36:20.529)Yeah, yeah, I bet. Okay, last one. Favorite morning drink.
Laurel Scott (36:25.296)coffee black.
Rick Sola (36:26.993)Okay, we have that in common. That's basically, it's this black coffee. So very good, very good. I do wanna end, and I like to end these podcasts this way, but just brag on your people. Let's hear all about Haven and what you love about it.
Laurel Scott (36:31.244)Mm-hmm.
Laurel Scott (36:42.414)It's just, just, they're just good people. They're good people that believe in what we're doing here. Again, like I said, we have a lot of alumni who choose to come back and work here, whether they're a para, whether they're maintenance teaching. It's pretty cool to see people say, like, I went away to college, I went away for several years, and I came back to this place, and I think there's something special about that. You go to a game on a Friday night or a Thursday night, or actually this
week it's Wednesday night and and and it's filled and and they're not they're not just parents they're not just grandparents it's community members who've been here and they want to see this town succeed and they want to see these kids succeed and it makes it a pretty special place it's a small town so you know if you if you mess up they know about it but they also the cool thing about that is they celebrate you too they're the first ones they're championing kids they're the kids that are the people that are screaming on the sidelines
They're showing up for the spelling bee. We actually have a girl from the grade school going to the state spelling bee this year. we had a girl make it to the next round of the National Civic Spee Competition. just lots of really cool things going on both athletically and academically at Haven. And it makes it a really fun time to be here and a fun time to work for USD 312.
Rick Sola (38:06.707)Yeah, really great words about Haven and between the biscuits and gravy and Daisy Joes and all the things that I need to stop through there. And what's cool really just listening to how you're describing them is it goes back to that book you were just talking about, The Fans First. You're describing what sounds like a lot of fans of Haven and the community or they're fans of everything in USD 312 and.
It's really cool, and I want to wish you all the best in basketball season and unless you take on the Swathers again which would I think be like in the in the final round or championship, but But now very good and Laurel. Thanks again for making this work and for joining here today and Yeah, absolutely and in all the best in the days or weeks leading up to spring break and a good fourth quarter to you
Laurel Scott (38:43.128)Yeah, I think so.
Laurel Scott (38:50.254)Well, thanks for having me.
Laurel Scott (38:59.276)Yeah, you too. Yeah, you guys too. again, thanks for having me. It's been a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it.
Rick Sola (39:04.467)All right, take care.
Rick Sola (39:09.171)All
 

CC#33: Dr. Justin Bogart - Piper High School

Dr. Justin Bogart of Piper  High School in USD 203 is the feature on this episode of Cool Coffee w/ Kansas Principals. This episode was recorded during a long stretch of snow days and Dr. Bogart talks about his message to staff as they angst builds on missed instructional time. Check out this informative episode about Dr. Justin Bogart!
Connect with Dr. Justin Bogart:
X: @APBogart
Email: justin.bogart@piperschools.us 
(full transcript and chapters of the episode below)
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Chapters (time stamp does not account for 30 second intro)
00:00    Navigating Snow Days and Their Impact
06:38    Justin Bogart's Educational Journey
15:14    Reflections on Classroom Teaching
18:09    Transitioning to a New Principalship
28:03    Piper High School's Athletic Spirit
 
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT (generated by AI)
(timestamps not adjusted for intro)
Rick Sola (00:01.806)Hello and welcome to another edition of Cool Coffee with Kansas Principals. Today I am with Dr. Justin Bogart of Piper High School, USD 203. Welcome, Justin.
Justin Bogart (00:16.231)Glad to be here, Rick. Thanks for having me on.
Rick Sola (00:19.266)Yeah, glad to have you on and really glad and appreciate you jumping on on this February 19th day. So for those who are tuning in and maybe that date doesn't ring any sort of bells, but we are like right in the middle of snow days, multiple snow days. So how's it treating you out there out in Piper?
Justin Bogart (00:43.075)cold like everybody else, but we also had parent-teacher conferences last week. So last time that we saw our kids was Tuesday of last week. Then we had two days of conference, Friday off and Monday off for the holiday. And now Mother Nature has blessed us, if that's what you want to say, with a couple more days off.
Rick Sola (01:08.622)Well, I know my own kids, they keep asking, hey, are we gonna have school off tomorrow? Why don't they just call the whole week off? You all need school.
Justin Bogart (01:14.663)I guess we can think of it as a practice spring break.
Rick Sola (01:21.838)Yeah, yeah, just a dress rehearsal for the spring break, other than the the temperature outside. You mentioned conferences. We had ours last week, too. And actually, we were supposed to have the makeup from our arena style conferences. What is today? Today is Wednesday. So we were supposed to have it tonight and that got canceled. So now we're going next week, next Wednesday for four hours in the evening. So, you know, the snow day, I kind of had this down to talk about, but it just kind of wreaks havoc on on the calendars.
Justin Bogart (01:24.411)Right.
Rick Sola (01:51.95)What's going on in the, for the account, just like the immediate impact you wake up today or maybe you get the news yesterday. What's the first thing that's on your mind when you get these snow day calls?
Justin Bogart (02:04.849)Well, the first thing that I think about is that we all said in our interviews, either for our first teaching jobs or our first admin jobs, that we are flexible. We're often asked to describe three characteristics about ourselves. And I believe that 99 % of us said, well, we're flexible. my concern is just the consistency that we know is so important to have with
kids being at the building and teachers being in front of kids. my, one of my immediate thoughts is, okay, what do I need to do today to help my teachers and our school community persist with all of these days off? Are there messages that I need to send? What do I need my admin team to do? So there's a lot of things that go through my head.
when we get that information from the district that says we're out again. It's something that I'm preparing to think about again as we look at record cold temperatures tomorrow and the possibility that we may not be back in session tomorrow either.
Rick Sola (03:17.004)Yeah, you know, I joke a little bit ago about how my, just see it in my own house and my kids and they get excited for the idea of not being in school. But, but just like he said, like there, there's a lot of important messaging that does go out because, know, we will be back this week. I expect that, but, you know, we could have, we have some late start options, things like that, but there are certainly some things to consider. Then you do come back where
Just like you, haven't been in session since last Tuesday, so it's over a week off. And then when you do come back and it's, let's say it's Thursday or maybe Friday, then, you know, it's just hard to get kind of get back into that groove, but you got to hit the ground running for all the lost time. I know I've had some staff reach out and there's big concerns as far as where they're at and whether they're pacing guide or in preparation for upcoming assessments and things like that.
But you hit the nail on the head. think we gotta be flexible. We can't control this and it's, you when it's not safe to be at school, we shouldn't be, but we just work with what we have and kind of move forward from there.
Justin Bogart (04:24.741)Yeah, message that I share with my staff at the appropriate times is that we're not holding the string across the finish line as far as getting all of the curriculum taught.
You know, when we have these days out and for Piper, we're on day set. The first week of January, we lost an entire week and now we're two more days lost. And I know our teachers are anxious about teaching what they know is important for kids to learn. But we're not telling them that they've got to cross that finish line. We want them to.
adjust to what they know needs to be taught and then do a good job of that. We're looking at quality versus quantity at this point and we know it's all important. What we've got to do now is teaching professionals, learning professionals, is decide how do we adjust it and then what does great instructional delivery look like under the circumstances.
Rick Sola (05:40.29)Yeah, what a great message to send there. And I'm sure that's really, I don't know, encouraging and comforting in some ways because there's a lot of stress that teachers will put on themselves, like you said, to reach the finish line and that reinforcement from their building principal to just focus on the quality that you know, that we know you can deliver rather than the quantity. Yeah, certainly a relevant message right now and
I'm sure that that means a lot right now. And this is hitting so much of the state. I've kind of been following a little bit even beyond the KC Metro. mean, this is kind of a unique thing too, just like the blizzard back earlier in January hit much of us. So we're all in the same boat. So yeah, what a great message. So Justin, kind of moved ahead here, but I'd love to hear about your...
Road to the Chair, you're sitting here as a first year, not first year principal, but first year in Piper as principal. But what led to you along the way, your educational journey?
Justin Bogart (06:52.623)I appreciate your interest in that. You could say that it all started when I would visit my father's classroom at Stafford High School back in the 70s and early 80s. He taught social studies in Stafford in a small South Central Kansas community. And I was just fascinated by what possibly went on.
And I watched him do a few things, both as a teacher and a coach that really intrigued me. And I knew in my heart that I was probably gonna land in the world of education. Even though I went to KU to study engineering in the first semester of my time there. But I quickly realized I was in the wrong e-school. I needed education and not engineering. So.
Rick Sola (07:40.195)Ha.
Justin Bogart (07:47.495)But I come from a line of educators. My grandmother was a long time English teacher in the Lawrence at Lawrence High School. My dad, obviously, teacher and later an administrator himself. He was my high school principal at both Stafford High School and Tonganoxie High School. So and for the most part, that worked out really well. You know, he never got to.
Intrusive into my life as a student and I did my very best to stay out of his office for all the wrong reasons. He was my inspiration there. My mom was a public school or excuse me public. Librarian in Stafford and then later in the both in the Kansas City, Kansas Community College and Johnson County systems so. Learning is just part of our our namesake in the Bogart household and.
It was a natural fit for me and I jumped into teaching English at DeSoto High School in 1995 and then five years there working under Dr. Joe Novak, who was our principal. And then we we transferred together to Mill Valley High School when it opened. And that's that's really where those real formative years of my teaching experience happened and crystallized at Mill Valley.
teaching English, leading the English department. I was also the boys basketball coach there. And I fell in love with teaching. I'd had my admin degree for quite a while. And I'd always thought that I'd probably teach for about 10 years and then move into administration. But I really fell in love with what was happening in the classrooms and working with kids. And I just loved it.
And then I stepped away from coaching, which was a great decision for me and just had one year of clarity about where I was. And that was year 20 of my career. So in the middle to the last third of my career, it just became natural for me to think about leadership at a higher level. was blessed to be a department chair and to be part of some of the leadership opportunities at Mill Valley. And in the absence of coaching, there was something missing.
Justin Bogart (10:08.775)You know, being part of something or leading something that's greater than yourself, I think has always fascinated me and intrigued me. And I decided that it was time for me to see if I could be influential across the building and not just a classroom and not just a department. And those things are important. But to see if I could have an impact building wide, I really dived into some interesting things about teaching and
and leadership in my last five years as a teacher. I wanted to practice those. I was fortunate to convince Dr. Tom Berry up at Leavenworth when he was there at the time to hire me as a brand new administrator. And he was my first mentor in that. And I could have asked for a better person because he had come from a number of experiences, both in the KCK and.
Blue Valley School Districts in Andalita. So he was a mentor there for two years and I served four years at Leavenworth High School as assistant principal. And then an opportunity opened to work under Todd Dane, Dr. Todd Dane at Shiny Mission South. And I just couldn't turn that down as I was recommended by a couple of people to look into that. And they really said the culture at Shiny Mission South is great.
And it's great because Todd Dane does such a job of empowering teachers and his admin team to develop culture. And I learned it firsthand. So the goal, though, for me as an administrator was never to be just to serve in that assistant principal role. I'd always longed for my own building. I watched my father work as a building leader from a student perspective.
I never really knew as a student what he was doing behind the scenes, but I became more aware of that as I became a teacher and we had conversations about teaching and learning and leadership. But I found out quickly. Then a great opportunity arrived in at Eudora High School to be a first year principal and Eudora has.
Justin Bogart (12:29.467)great community, great kids, great teachers. And I fell in love with that community and had no plans to leave. But my wife and I had moved to Kansas City, Kansas in the fall of 2023 and fortunate to move into our forever home on a little bit of land. Piper job opened.
was very convenient to my house. Jessica Dane had a vision that I looked forward to supporting if I had the chance. And it was hard to say goodbye after a year to Eudora. Piper's been, Eudora was gracious in how it supported me through that transition. Piper's been great for me. It's been a real challenge in being another.
In my second year as a first year principal, which is a unique experience, so I feel like I'm really starting again at year one of the principalship and learning how to apply the skills and strengths that I have and also to develop things that I need to get better at. So every day I go in ready to learn from the kids, from our teachers, from my team, and ultimately our goal is just to get better every
Rick Sola (13:55.596)Yeah, you mentioned there I really liked you shouted out Dr. Tom Berry, who actually was in the district that I'm in for a while, but just as a mentor. And I was just thinking that would be a really good focal point to have like a panel of principals talk about the mentors in their life. Because you mentioned you just could you couldn't have asked for a better mentor. And and I've got a couple in my career that I really think.
think of and I've heard several brought up along the way as I've done this and just talk with people and just how powerful the mentors in our profession are. And I then go back to where we started this conversation and that messaging you're giving to your teachers about missing so much and the stress they're feeling and then that mentorship that they are now getting from you and what that might impact in the future.
Yeah, you talked about leaving the teaching part of education and now going into administration. And it's awesome to hear kind of how you got to that from a teacher coach, having that year of clarity and then moving forward. But at this point, what is it you missed most about being in the classroom and being that classroom teacher?
Justin Bogart (15:14.823)Boy, it might be easier to say what I don't miss. I don't miss all the grading. But I miss greeting the kids at the door. I really miss the first five minutes of class and finding a way.
finding a way to engage them immediately to pique their curiosity or to set the tone through an activity about what is to be learned that day and how it will make a difference for them that day and perhaps beyond. I really miss that five minute, first five minutes to set the tone for class.
To make up for that, I often try to do that in our staff meetings or in the opening moments of our professional learning days, know, build that interest, build that engagement, build those early connections. We talked with our staff this year about winning the first five minutes of class and that I do miss that a lot.
And then I missed the class closings because I thought that I got pretty good at how we ended class and, you know, setting up the learning for the next time that the kids come back and doing the simple, informal, formative assessments that help you understand that the kids learned what you wanted them to and how you need to be prepared for the next time that you saw them because they didn't learn.
So I mean, I miss so much about the classroom, but especially that opening time, that closing time, which I think can be the most powerful moments of instruction.
Rick Sola (17:15.862)Yeah, that first, well, the first five, like you said, in the door greeting, I just don't think it can be overstated how important and impactful that could be. You know, and I've reminded staff even recently just that simple act of standing at the door, either fist bump, high five, hello greeting. It just it does set a positive tone. then when you start that that class off with.
In the old days, I remember the anticipatory set they would drill into us. But just a hook and a way to get going, yeah, absolutely. And you alluded to those relationships that we form as teachers. That's certainly a piece of the teaching aspect and coaching as a former coach too, but just some of those relationships you're able to have as a classroom teacher are pretty special.
Justin Bogart (17:45.415)I'm gonna leave.
Rick Sola (18:09.324)So you mentioned having kind of a year two as a year one. And so I'm kind of interested in hearing about, had as a first year principal over a year ago, but then having an opportunity to be a first year again in a different building. What was kind of going through your mind as far as like maybe first order of business and maybe first order of business.
a year plus ago versus just several months ago and some of those things that maybe you did a little differently.
Justin Bogart (18:42.819)Yeah, that's a great question. One thing that I had thought about stepping into the principalship at Eudora was that Ron Abel had been there for a long time and that he had quite a legacy. And how would I follow that? And he had built such great
relationships with the teaching staff there and then naturally with the students. And who is who am I then to come in and follow someone like Ron Able who established the CTE programs and was a significant driver of Eudora being ahead of the 21st century learning that our schools are now organized around. So.
You know, one thing I did make a focus on was making sure that the kids really knew who I was coming in as a new principal. And perhaps I neglected doing that with my staff. And I had conversations with a few of them about, know, there was a family feel in place and then that felt a little different now that I was there. So.
You know, I took that to heart. It's not always easy to hear where you may be falling short on things, but every conversation like that is a chance for me to get better. And I use that to help me adjust my lens and my approach with people at Eudora in the last two thirds of my time there.
And again, it's such a great place. It was difficult to leave. I felt that I was we had gotten some work started there that I was exiting from. that was difficult because you want things to be in place after you leave. That's your legacy. that we're doing things that are
Justin Bogart (20:57.041)helpful for kids and teachers and you want those to remain after you're gone. And that work was unfinished for me and that was an empty spot that I couldn't fill at Eudora. But I made a decision to move to Piper in the best interest of my family and me.
had that year at U-Door to prepare me for now, opening a brand new building, meeting a whole other staff, a larger staff, a school about almost twice as big as U-Door. So there were some unique challenges there. And one thing that I really focused on right away was building relationships with the adults. And what I was a little unprepared for at
Piper was the the stress of moving into a brand new building. So for me, it was I just needed to get my office set up and learn all about the building. And what I what I realized was that there was so much on our teachers to move out of a building and into a new building in the time that they had had to do it.
and there's so much going on in our district and that we'd actually had teachers moving into three different buildings that had been either brand new or had been remodeled in some ways. There was a lot of adult stress happening. And our district did a nice job of giving us, we delayed the start of school a week and we did as much as we could give teachers time to get themselves set up.
Rick Sola (22:27.906)Ha
Justin Bogart (22:43.951)It's like moving into a new house. You just realize what what you don't have that you need to get. What seems to have gotten lost in the move. And there was a lot of things that had gotten shifted to buildings that took a long time to get back to us and the stress that created for teachers. So one thing that I knew I had to concentrate on early was building connections with teachers. The teachers are going to take care of the kids. And so we've got to make sure the teachers feel welcome and that they had a
an understanding of who I was as a leader and who I looked to to influence me. And one thing that we did at the beginning of the year was we talked about who is your who? Who are those people that have been so instrumental in your life that you think about them every day? And for me, it was my dad and it was Joe Novak, the first principal who hired me.
and a couple of other people who were very important to me in my professional journey. So we let staff have conversations around that on the very first day that we were all together. And I did get a few notes from people that they were really appreciative of that. Because one thing that we had to remember, Piper patrons supported and the district built this incredible learning space for us.
at Piper High School. The building is one thing. It's a great space for learning. But ultimately, it's the work that we do in the building and who's doing the work and how we're building those relationships that's going to sustain us. Kids are going to love the building and it's going to make a difference for about a month. But it's the people who are going to sustain and nourish the work. And it's very true. Our kids are now used to this incredible building.
They do a good job of taking care of it, but ultimately we have to build those relationships professionally with each other so that we can sustain the momentum that we had from moving into that space. again, it's a focus on people, not about programs. It's just a focus on people. And I felt that I've grown in my capacity to do that in my second year as a first year principal.
Rick Sola (24:58.872)Yeah.
Yeah.
Rick Sola (25:10.914)Yeah, you hit on, I mean, it is all about the people and there's been a lot of different variations of that conversation right here on this show. But it is about the people and those connections and being authentic and genuine. And you touched on something earlier. You didn't use the word, but what I heard was a lot of humility. You mentioned that the feedback that sometimes it's hard to get, but it can be used to help better ourselves and especially in an opportunity.
to go from one building to another in a year's time to take some of those things. like I said, that can be maybe hard to hear, but I think staff, students, parents, they appreciate humility and authenticity and certainly just hearing a lot of that as you talk about Piper and all the challenges. And it's interesting, kind of an aside, we had a similar situation here.
in Olathe where we closed down one school and opened it up with Santa Fe Trail Middle School. And a lot of the movement taking contents from the old building into the new, that's a big shift and a big task for everybody involved. then like you said, it goes back to the people who there's a lot of stresses, but then, you know, it's...
we'll get the job done and just take care of your kids and then take care of the people and that sort of thing. So yeah, really, really good stuff and appreciate you sharing that. Cause as I realized, I didn't realize that initially about you, but I saw your bio online and thought, you know, that's a, an opportunity to that's fairly unique to have a, have a chance to, okay, last year, I don't know if I would want to do that again, or maybe I do want to do that again.
but a chance to kind of start fresh.
Justin Bogart (27:10.796)I'm looking forward to being a second year principal.
Rick Sola (27:17.998)Yeah, like you said, you get a lot of work going and you know, at the end of the day though, because you touched on this, you made a decision that was good for your family and whatnot. And you know, I really try to emphasize that to my staff too. you may be in our building for a year and opportunities come up and you know, that's relevant for all of us. And what an awesome opportunity. You went from one Dr. Dane to another.
Justin Bogart (27:45.784)Yeah.
Rick Sola (27:46.01)with the Shiny Mission South to Piper there, two very highly qualified, or qualified, certainly qualified quality people. I've worked with both of them in my career and found myself very fortunate to do so. anyway.
Justin Bogart (28:03.013)Well, Dr. Todd Dane says this often that he and I both have the same boss. So.
Rick Sola (28:09.506)Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard him refer to your your current boss, your professional boss as the better Dane or I can't remember his words, but but no.
Justin Bogart (28:24.231)We say that she is the real Dr. Dane.
Rick Sola (28:27.95)The real Dr. Dane, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, Justin, I don't want to keep you too much. know there you mentioned this was your third Zoom call of the day. So I don't want to keep you too much, but we are right in the middle of basketball season. I was kind of curious how Piper's doing as a basketball team. I'm a former basketball coach. I know you are. How's the season going out there? But I also imagine you're probably dancing around the this these snow days and your coaches are probably trying to get back in the gym and
How are things going out there? Basketball related.
Justin Bogart (29:01.233)Well, we have two very good teams at Piper this year, and I think between them we have three losses. So we've got high expectations for the rest of the season and potentially some deep runs into the postseason. And we play in a very competitive league in the United Kansas Conference. And we've got back to back games for
This week because of the reschedules, so we go to Topeka Seaman on Thursday. That's a makeup game and then we turn around and go to De Soto on Friday night. Both games that we've played against these teams this year and both boys and girls have been hard fought. Contest have gone down to the very end and. So there's no easy. are no easy nights for our teams, but I'm just proud of our kids and.
You know, our kids show up and they play hard and that's what you want. And because they play hard, then the outcomes on the scoreboard are what we want them to be. I really enjoy watching basketball from the principal's side of the floor. I don't miss being on the coach's side of the floor.
Rick Sola (30:21.272)Haha.
Rick Sola (30:25.484)Yeah, I did not. I was not a varsity coach, but I really enjoyed my time. But I agree with that sentiment, too. There's certain parts of the coaching side of it that it's a grind all to itself as well. you draw a blank here. I was going to ask you a question. and feel free not to answer this, but maybe this is a question more from like the student if you don't
want to answer this directly, but Piper, Pirates, who's the big rival out there? Like who do the students kind of really gear up for annually or does it just kind of vary on who's got the team to beat that year?
Justin Bogart (31:10.401)Well, it's easily baser Linwood and across all sports there. They are five miles down the road from us. It's been a natural rivalry for a long time. And I have enjoyed the appropriate competitiveness and the competitive ferocity between the two communities.
Rick Sola (31:15.009)Okay.
Justin Bogart (31:39.041)And I have very good friends who coach and teach in Baser. so we talk about it a little bit. The gyms have been full when we play each other. And we've got to go to Baser next week. So we've got three challenging basketball games ahead of us. And when Baser came over for wrestling earlier this year, they brought a ton of fans. So they're.
That community is heavily invested in boys and girls wrestling. And their boys and girls basketball programs have always been competitive. They got the better of us this year on the football field, but our kids are just so fired up for that game. And we packed the stands. So yeah, we get pretty excited when we know we're going to play the green and gold from Baser.
Rick Sola (32:32.012)Yeah, that's a lot of fun. like you said, the positive competitiveness between two schools is just part of the magic of high school sports. And it's fun in any community to see that. And you say that, that makes total sense. I was drawing a blank on who that natural rival was, but of course, yeah, I write down the road from you. So that's great. Hey, before we go, I'll give you a chance here. Bragg on your people out in Piper.
Justin Bogart (33:01.851)Wow. You know, we're a wall to wall Academy school, the only one of our sort or any one of our type like that on this side of the state line. teachers are, you know, continually navigating what it means for our kids to be in wall to wall academies from their freshman through their senior year. There's a lot of work involved in that. Our teachers teach a lot of preps so that we can
offer a number of CTE pathways and for our kids to get those market value assets. Our teachers are doing really hard work and we're at the front of it, you know, and it's not always easy to navigate choppy waters. We're pirates after all. So our teachers are navigating some choppy waters when it comes to a cabin, but it's in a good way. We're just.
We have lot of problems that we have to sit down and discuss. How do we do this? How do we do this? What does this look like? What does this look like moving forward? How do we embed our Academy structure across the building and all of our content areas? So we are sailing in some uncharted waters for schools on the Kansas side, and we get a lot of interest regarding that. I just I.
Anytime I can, I direct them to our teachers who are really doing that work and my admin team, we are there to support, provide resources and direction where we can.
Rick Sola (34:39.308)Yeah, that's awesome. you know, you mentioned your admin team there at the end. I had a chance to meet one of your assistants last year. I think it was at USA, Kansas, Bobby Cave, right? Yeah, so connection here, his sister teaches at my school. And so we made that connection, but really, really great guy. it kind of just reminds me of just how
Justin Bogart (34:52.047)Barbie cave, yep.
Justin Bogart (34:59.086)Okay.
Rick Sola (35:05.332)small our profession is and even in the state of Kansas there's so many little connections like that but well really good words about your people. I enjoyed talking with you and hearing a little bit more about Piper and for you sharing that with principals across the state of Kansas and perhaps here coming up this spring semester when it warms up maybe we'll run into each other at a conference or something but or in the basketball gym if they're catching some high school games but
Justin, thanks for taking the time here. I know it's a day out of the building, but there's a lot to do. So thanks for taking the time.
Justin Bogart (35:41.767)May the work never ends, and I think it's important for all of us and as leaders to know that we can always reach out to each other if we need to. And that's that's important to being part of the KPA network.
Rick Sola (35:53.218)Perfect. And I will put your information and the show notes here as well in case anyone wants to reach out to you. all the best to you as you reschedule everything and get things going again. And we get through this crazy third quarter and back after spring break.
Justin Bogart (36:14.341)Yeah, it'll be here before we know it and then we're talking graduation. So, lots to look forward to.
Rick Sola (36:18.19)Yeah, right. All right, well hey, thanks a lot and we'll see you around.
 

CC#32: Mr. Don Epps - Pleasanton Schools

Join Mr. Don Epps, proud superintendent of Pleasanton Schools USD 344, as he shares his motivational methods and philosophies used with his staff and students. This conversation provides many thought-provoking soundbites that'll prove useful for any school leader. 
Connect with Don Epps:
X: @DonEppsEDU
Founder of #ChasingGreatness Enterprises
@ChaseGreatEDU
(full transcript and chapters of the episode below)
 
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The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
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Chapters (time stamp does not account for 30 second intro)
00:00 Introduction to Don Epps and His Role03:03 The Importance of Music in School Culture05:50 Journey to Superintendency: Early Influences and Experiences11:55 The Middle School Experience: Challenges and Joys15:03 Chasing Greatness: The Philosophy Behind the Movement20:23 Pursuing Greatness: The Journey Begins22:40 Chasing Greatness: A Year of Learning25:31 The Power of Joyful Leadership28:54 Creating a Joyful School Environment30:02 Building Excitement in Education34:23 Celebrating Community and Leadership38:32 The Importance of Sharing Stories
Transcript is AI generated. Time stamps do not account for 30 second show intro.
Rick Sola (00:02.155)Hello and welcome to another edition of Cool Coffee. am here today with the very proud superintendent of Pleasanton Schools, USD 344, home of the Blue Jays, Mr. Don Epps. How are you, Don?
Don Epps (00:18.63)What's up Rick, thank you for having me on here it's been a it's an honor I've been looking forward to this a long time and so thank you for taking the time to Visit with me. It's been awesome
Rick Sola (00:31.302)absolutely. No, this is great. It's an honor to have you on here. And I'm really excited to talk to you and get a little bit more in depth with just a lot of the things that I've seen on your very active social media accounts. And we'll get to it. But I'd also add in their inspirational social media accounts. I'm excited for you to be able to share a little bit more about that with the principals here that are listening and for all who decide to tune in.
As we get to that, I'll just start. know, we just finished. We're recording this on February 6th. And so it's a Thursday. And how did you fill your day today?
Don Epps (01:09.754)Well, number one, I started by greeting my son at the door of our school. He's in fifth grade. He has two favorite teams in the whole wide world in NFL. His two favorite teams.
our offices, the chiefs and the Philadelphia Eagles. So he wore an Eagle's Jersey with a cheese cap. I did not expel him. Okay. But we're working through it, but on Sunday night, we're going to be, we're going to be rooting for the, for the chiefs. I, we're going to some issues, but no, the best way I can start my day any day is greeting kids and getting the boom box out in front of the school, playing some good music and
Seeing the parents and the the families who and see the kids off the bus That's out if I can't start my day like that. It's usually not a good day But I don't care how cold or how warm it is or whatever else we we try it sometimes it gets a little windy in my beautiful hair and But uh, but like I said, no that that's it. That's this gets that fuels me from the rest of my day
Rick Sola (02:11.756)So you greeted with the boombox. You wouldn't happen just to pull out like Celine Dion or Cher or anything.
Don Epps (02:18.283)Yeah Yeah, I have this inspired. Well, first off I kind of stumbled upon Apple music and I always been a commercial guy on Pandora or YouTube and I would never spill for the but I can accidentally got to three months free trial and My wife Vicky wonderful person. She doesn't know about that yet so I've been going crazy in the last couple months with with Apple downloads and
So I have this inspired greatness playlist and it has all kinds of incredible things on it. So yes, little slain. I've been adding some new music every day and I got a little bit of a YouTube on there. So it's just, if it's fun, we can play it. So.
Rick Sola (03:03.922)That's perfect. I brought that up because I saw, don't know if it was this week or last week, but you had some Celine Dion and I was impressed. You're out there singing it and then you introduced to students, share and kind of you build it as kind of, this is the Taylor Swift of like yesteryear, if you will. So how did that go? What did they think of it?
Don Epps (03:08.337)Yeah.
Yeah
Don Epps (03:25.401)Yes. She I didn't. Okay, I'll start off. I did not show any music videos or share because sometimes they're a little bit racy. But I will say that the kids love it. They love love music at lunch. We play music all the time. You're at you're probably asking yourself like I'm a superintendent now, but I I'm an educator and I love being around kids and teachers.
Rick Sola (03:30.188)You
Don Epps (03:48.803)And so I'm, I'm going to put myself in those situations. And so I serve peaches at lunch and whatever it takes, you know, we have different fruits and vegetables. I serve at lunch and the lunch line. And then once we're done serving, we get out there and we have these huge dance parties. And so I introduced the kids to all kinds of amazing music. And we got, we got every grade level now is getting me a playlist. like the first grade playlist, and then I got a high school playlist, but, but like every grade level has got their own and it gets
Sometimes there's music wars in there because they want to hear. I have little fingerprints all over my shirt sometimes because, and my sports coats, because kids come up with, they got pasta on their finger and like tug at my shirt. Mr. Abs, I want to hear, you know, and the big one is, big one is Cupid's shuffle is still alive. I mean, it doesn't go anywhere. Church clap's a big one now. my gosh, church clap. That's crazy.
Rick Sola (04:45.504)I was gonna ask if church clap, because that promotes just the most incredible reaction. We'll do music on like a Friday in the lunchroom. And when that song comes on, the shrill that you first hear and then immediately they start getting into the dancing. It's incredible.
Don Epps (04:52.263)Yeah.
Don Epps (05:02.628)Rick, could you invite me to your lunch room sometime on a Friday? I would. Okay.
Rick Sola (05:06.722)You are welcome anytime. Yeah, we'll cue up church clap. And like I said, I didn't even know what it was until I saw this reaction and then I had to learn a little bit more about it.
Don Epps (05:19.533)We got you got no kids gonna be flexible do that church clap. They they don't mess around
Rick Sola (05:23.198)Yeah, I'll watch, but I don't have that kind of ability. I love that you mentioned you're a superintendent now, but you're an educator in getting in to the schools. And part of this show with our guest is to share that road to the chair, that road to where you're at right now. And what did that road look like? You are now the superintendent in Pleasanton, but how did you get there?
Don Epps (05:28.038)No.
Don Epps (05:50.69)Well, number one, coming out of high school, I had an incredible person in my life named Charlie Beckman, who I named my son after, R. Charlie. And he gave me an opportunity to be a football aide as a senior. had junior high during the school day practice. So one of the senior high school, could like during the seventh period, we had junior high practice. And I did it. And I quickly knew this was my calling. This is what I love. I got so much, I received so much energy from going out there with those kids. And I've just...
I was just an older role model, hopefully for those kids. But after the end of that season, Mr. Beckman pulled me over and says, Donnie, you are a football coach and teacher and you're a coach and teacher. And I believed him. And so from that point forward, I was, I got an education path. My family was, we had a lot of agricultural experience and background, but it was education from that point forward. And, I'm, I just loved it. And so.
From that point, I wanted to put myself around the greatest people possible to learn and grow. think a quality of all great leaders is you have a, you have a quest to learn every day and you, you're humble enough to know that you don't have all the answers and you need to learn. And I I'm that way every, that's why I live in your podcast so much, Rick. It's amazing to hear all the great people around the state of Kansas. And, and so I got, I was able to later on, while I still in college coach at St. Mary's Colgate and Chuck's mess.
And then, then after that, after I got out of college, I continued to coach at Colgan. And then later I moved to Fort Scott to be the defensive coordinator. was 25 years old defensive coordinator at Fort Scott. And within that year, the legendary coach, Bob Campbell went into the business world and then I become the head coach at 26. And all the reason I mentioned that is I thought I had all the answers back then. And, it's awesome, but you don't know it's like, it's this amazing ignorance, I guess.
But growing up in our grain elevator here in Pleasanton, Kansas, where I'm at currently, I've come back home in the last couple of years, my parents modeled how to treat people and this work ethic and how to do the little things right. And people will always remember how you treat them. I just, that's why I took those principles and went through education that way. How I went from a teacher to a administrator, well,
Don Epps (08:15.743)I believed I got to a point where I believed the culture we had in our classroom and how we treated each other and how we did that on our sports teams that I coach track football and basketball. We could then take that to the building. And that's, I saw that's where I had the, the, the itch, guess. And so I first became an administrator in diamond high school down in South West Missouri, down South Joplin loved it. was amazing experience. and.
I noticed why the diamond of the high school principal, like I said, I noticed sixth grade was a really pivotal year in a kid's life. You know that there's that every kid we hope comes to school as a spark in their eye, like they can do anything in the world. And I noticed that is a lot where a lot of dreams die sometimes right around that fifth to seventh grade range. And so I love diamond, but I wasn't from Missouri, although I grew up on the state line. And when.
Royster middle school position opened up as a principal there in Chinook, great school district, great community. I felt compelled that this is a calling for me to be a middle school principal up until that point. I've never, I've only been a middle school coach at different. This is a few times in my career, just middle school, everything else in high school. And I quickly realized it was in about the first two days of being a middle school principal. This is my maturity level. Okay. I'm like a six, I'm like a middle school kid. And so, and.
Rick Sola (09:38.946)haha
Don Epps (09:42.177)What I, what I loved about it is, is that if you are genuine, it will always win. Kids, kids can detect it. Staff can detect, you know that Rick. mean, and so, so after being at Royster for five years and the combination, you know, my dad's health is not great and he's still, he's still going. But I just felt when this position opened up, I never thought I'd leave Royster. I was going to be there for my career and, and we loved it. That was our home.
And, uh, so it was really, really tough to leave, but when the superintendent job opened up in Pleasanton, that's community I grew up in. didn't go to high school here. I went to school in Jayhawk. We had a kind of weird school border, but, uh, which is a five miles away in mountain city. And also in mountain city and the class of 1997, I have a horrible, horrible senior pitcher with me as a mustache. Friends don't let friends grow teenage mustaches. And, remember that Rick? Okay.
I can never go really back there permanently, but I have to live with that. But I just felt that what we did at the building level at Royster, the culture, the feel, the excitement we had, it can be done at a district level. And coming to Pleasanton, it's one, it's more a small school district, but it's a school district where I can see every kid every day. And that's so special to me. And I can see every teacher every day. so these connections, although I don't communicate the same way,
the staff anymore, you know, but some ways I'm kind of like grandpa now. I don't have to be the direct discipline person, but it's kind of fun. But we have one campus and I can see 18 year olds and then five minutes later I can be in the preschool, you know, and it's just awesome.
Rick Sola (11:27.286)Yeah. That's a funny analogy. You say grandpa say, you know, things you're in the building loving it. Things start happening. You know what? I'm going to, I'm going to go to the other grade level here and good luck with all that. Yeah. That's funny. You mentioned mustache. You know, I mean, I think that's kind of all the rage now. People are the younger generation. I wouldn't say it's my style, but you know, give it a shot.
Don Epps (11:40.127)I'm out. All right. Call me if you need me.
Don Epps (11:52.988)Rick Sola (11:55.09)You mentioned middle school and that's where I'm at. I've spent all but one of my 21 years at the middle school and you always say when we meet with parents and they come in and you're introducing them to the whole middle school, know, I really, always looking for someone who loves middle school because I think it's an age that you've got to love. You've got to embrace and understand the quirks and the kind of the weirdness, but there's so much joy and a lot of fun. Middle school is not for everybody, but
Don Epps (12:13.213)Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Rick Sola (12:24.842)for us, who it's for, man, what a great place to be. I referred to it as, I've heard it called the best kept secret. Cause I think a lot of people try to like almost recoil at the thought of middle school. Man, there's a lot of really good things happening in those middle school, middle levels.
Don Epps (12:26.321)Yeah.
Don Epps (12:31.737)Yep.
Don Epps (12:37.597)Yeah, it's amazing and we're every everybody we're all we all have insecurities, but in that middle school time, that's when you really be exposed and and kids need to have confidence. They need to feel comfortable who they are. And that's that's why that's that's the mission we're on, right? You know, we don't we want kids to feel like they're valued and they're loved and cared for and they go do great things. And that's why we do what we do every day.
Rick Sola (13:02.018)You touched on earlier, because being a new coach in your mid-20s, and that was me at one point, and it is funny how there's a sense of like, you know everything. You know, I can't, are we doing it this way? Oh my goodness. And that really taps into that whole ignorance is bliss saying, which I don't think I fully understood until I got older. And they're like, oh yeah, you know, there is a bliss to not knowing, but.
Don Epps (13:14.147)Yeah.
Don Epps (13:19.11)Yeah.
Don Epps (13:24.388)Yeah.
Rick Sola (13:28.682)So you are now the superintendent. I'm sorry, is this your second year or first year as superintendent? Okay. And having now kind of passed through the principal chair, is there anything that you think back on now that you're a superintendent, you think, I wish I had done more of this as a principal.
Don Epps (13:33.007)Yeah, second year. Yep.
Don Epps (13:47.291)Yeah. And so I'm going to just give one piece of advice off of this too. What makes you special as a principal or as an educator? Cause there's, there's going to be so many principals going into superintendencies over the next years to come. Don't ever change what makes you special. And that is something I see so much people try to be something different in a different role. What's your core is, is your superpower, your talents, you know, and what, and what, what helps you help people.
So don't ever change that. so there, I'm sorry, you're gonna.
Rick Sola (14:21.87)no, no, that goes right into what you said earlier about relating to students and middle school students maybe specifically, but I'd say also just being authentic, being genuine, being who you are, you know.
Don Epps (14:34.424)Yeah. And absolutely. I going back like trust your gut, know, you're like follow your heart and trust your gut is something I kind of live by. And if I could go back to be a principal, who knows? may, I may go back and be a football coach someday, you know, full time or history. love history teaching, but I would say one thing going back would be never don't beat myself up so much on, on things that
didn't go the way I, I'm part of myself, you know? And we got to for ourselves a little slack. think life's hard enough and we've got enough criticism and enough out there. And I think I should have probably gave myself a little more grace, you know, as a, as a principal. I lived and died by every decision I made a lot. And I still do it now, the superintendent, but it's just, we all need to it because life's so hard. know, Rick, just like, give yourself grace, cut yourself some slack and just, just follow your heart and trust your gut.
Rick Sola (15:34.274)Yeah, you know, and I kind of wonder too, our professions tend to, the people that gravitate toward these professions probably are naturally more hard on ourselves when we mess up or when we perceive that we've messed up. And so then it just kind of doubles down on you. And I kind of want to get to, it kind of leads me to a follow-up question, but kind of getting to the hashtag that is tied to your name and to your...
Don Epps (15:44.869)Yeah.
Don Epps (15:59.306)Yeah.
Rick Sola (16:02.41)your social media, but that's the hashtag chasing greatness and thinking as principal. But now as superintendent, I have been following you now for a while. think the first time I'm trying to remember if was USA, Kansas in May or if it was KPA conference last November or two Novembers ago. But your session was really well attended and my assistant here was in your session and just had so many great things to say. So I started following and
Don Epps (16:06.048)No.
Rick Sola (16:32.404)I just really enjoy your Twitter account and I know, But I guess the origin of Chasing Greatness, when did it start? How did it start? Where'd you come up with it?
Don Epps (16:36.058)Yeah, we call it Twitter. Don't get the X stuff out here. It's Twitter. It's always gonna be Twitter to me.
Don Epps (16:46.902)Yeah. So as a high school principal back in diamond, kept, I wanted something like a rallying call, something that could just really, we could use as a verb, you know, and just use as an action. And so I was dreaming this thing up and I, you know, I, one of my friends, Hamish Brewer, he's the skateboard principal. He, we visit and we talk and you know, back in the old days and back on the diamond and he's such a great guy. And.
Rick Sola (17:10.135)Yeah.
Don Epps (17:17.34)And so he had this thing I heard in one of his videos, like chasing championships. I'm like, well, I love the word chasing, but I like championships, like a destination. so I like, so then it's like the, kind of hit me, know, chasing greatness means it's a journey. It's never, it's never ending. It's about the process. It's about, it's about we grow from the process. We grow from, from the travels we have and we never get to destination, you know, just that.
And what it really comes back to is it's a relentless pursuit of being our best self, you know, and, it never ends. We're going to have, we're going to trials and errors and we're going to failures and triumphs, but, but it's all about this. Never stop, never stopping, you know, just keep on chasing it. And, uh, and what happened, kind of, so it was kind of the summer I was going to Royster and that thing just took off. just, I didn't even think about it that much, but cause kids use it as part of their language, you know,
And it can be to lift people up or to call people out a little bit. Kids do it for themselves. Like that's not chasing greatness, you know, and, or, Hey, that's chasing greatness. And my point is we, we branded it all over our school and in our community at chenute. And it's really, it's taken off and I don't want it to be mine. I don't, just want people to use it and benefit from it and grow from it, you know, change, adapt it. But I will say that having this, a having a
Haven't I wouldn't call it. It's more than a brand. It's just kind of a mindset just have I think every school kind of needs a mindset like this is how we do business and and a pleasant and it just never stopped and wasn't it took off and And mr. Shields is one of my very best friends. He's the principal at Royster now that poor guy inherited I think chasing greatness is probably on walls or on windows probably 600 1600 places, you know, and so I'm teasing up. Maybe not. I don't know
But it's just, but kids incorporate into what they do. And so I, I just, I, if it helped have a positive impact, that's all I care about. But I just don't want to feel like anybody can use that. mean, it's something for anyone to, to, to relate to or to use in life.
Rick Sola (19:29.506)Yeah, that's a pretty timeless hashtag really. It's not very, it's not specific to a name or to a school. can be easily transferable. Interesting that kids are using it. That's great. That shows kind of a mentality that's forming. Was that something that you had to be really intent? You said it just kind of blew up. Was there any intentionality to, they come back once from summer and there's chasing greatness all over?
Don Epps (19:32.145)Yeah.
Yeah.
Don Epps (19:41.009)Yeah.
Don Epps (19:53.011)Yeah, so it it become part of our language first and then I just Yeah, it was very it was intentional in terms of what the meaning and what and the mindset Because life's hard enough. I've I said already like five times man I must be going some tough times right now. I keep saying that but but I will say that but it's so relatable because It's not about being great. It's about the pursuit of excellence. It's about
It's about trying to be your best self. And so yeah, it, it got to the point where even today I have a girl in lunch line. Now she always comes up and taps her fingers. Hashtag kissing great. And I mean, every kid's always talk about it and, and as part of classrooms and I just, I'm very honored, you know, but I just want people to share and grow from it. But every, I may seem kind of goofy at times, but I'm very intentional.
And I thought it could be a rallying cry just to that pursuit of being your best self, you know.
Rick Sola (20:56.515)Well, you kind of touched on it. I'm thinking of chasing greatness and that doesn't necessarily mean that everything always has to be great to get to greatness. could be, mean, tough times and failure are going to lead to greatness. And so there's a lot of like grit building qualities to that hashtag.
Don Epps (21:03.396)No!
Don Epps (21:13.008)Yeah, absolutely. And that is the opposite of being great sometimes like, Hey, it's about pursuing it. It's about trying. It's about tempting. Like don't sit back on the, don't sit on the sidelines, get in the game and try and do something great as a, as a principal. I just wanted our teachers trying like we're, going, we're going to try to create world-class opportunities for kids and these world-class learning environments.
To do that, you can't sit on the sideline. You have to go out and get outside your comfort zone and you gotta try things you haven't tried before. And that's what we want everywhere I've been and that's what I want from our staff for our kids.
Rick Sola (21:52.236)I like that trying and I think it's an important lesson for kids that failure is part of the process. And just like we were talking about how much we beat ourselves up and we still do and we're adults and we've been through it many times and we should know better half the time. But kids don't necessarily know that, but to be able to see examples from their teachers, the staff, all the way up to their superintendent, it's a good lesson. And a lot of times we're just kind of planting seeds.
Don Epps (22:06.896)Yeah.
Don Epps (22:13.22)Mm-hmm.
Rick Sola (22:18.902)that hopefully kind of takes root eventually, but that's a good example of that. So what does Chasing Greatness, I guess specifically maybe this year or right now, what does that, when you launched your second year in Pleasanton, what did that look like, Chasing Greatness back in August?
Don Epps (22:20.112)Mm-hmm.
Don Epps (22:40.864)Yeah. So what's important, it's like, it's not something that's like a lot of times schools have like these yearly mottoes or these yearly themes and stuff. It's not, it's not that it never stops. It's always going to be around. so blank can be chasing greatness, you know, so you can put chase greatness on the front and your backside of anything you're trying to accomplish, you know? And, and so like this year in particular, you know, year two of leadership is tough. I believe I think it's your toughest year because you now you
Now you know what you didn't know. And now, know, and like the learning doing gap is at an all time high. And so the funny thing about is no better, do better. always hear about that. we're out. So right now I'm in this mission trying, Hey, we know better. got to do better. Trying to help our staff. And what I'm trying to, what I'm trying to instill here is it's okay to fail, but we're never giving up. And, if you're failing, you're trying.
And if, and, and so that's what I really want to try to hit it with right now is beyond this, I mean, a couple of words put together with a hashtag. It's I have to model it and I, and I have to be vulnerable. I have to be put myself out there and, and Rick, I'm fully aware I'm, one of one. They're not, and thank God they know what I was like me. Okay. That's a good thing. And my dad is, but that's, know, he, he helped build me and my son's coming to me and I like that's dangerous in its own right. But, but I just don't.
I just want people to feel comfortable being uncomfortable and being willing to try and know they're going to be supportive. And that's what we're trying to do here in year two. Chasing greatness is a process and we're going for it. I will give you one example. If we want to have the greatest learning environment in the world, why can't we do that? But it's not about being the best in the How do you even determine that? But what's that look like? And what are we doing to get there?
And that's what it kind of boils down to. Like if we're going to have the cleanest school, the three things I started here with, like we're going to have, we're going to be best in the world how we treat each other. We're going to be the best in the world, how we take care of our school and we're going to, you know, and things like that. We're going to be the best in the world for the kids we serve. And, and we, then we all can start visualizing what that looks like and we can start aspiring for something. And once we start aspiring, great things start happening.
Rick Sola (25:05.154)Yeah. You said, think going back a second, if you're failing, you're trying. And is that what you said? If you're failing, you're trying. Yeah. And, know, I just saw it. I wrote that down. I thought that it's just a good way to think of it. And, you know, maybe, you know, I think working with kids in general, you see a lot of failures. I tell students often like this is a, you're not at a bad age to learn from these kinds of mistakes, you know, 10 years from now, it could mean something whole different deal.
Don Epps (25:13.565)Yeah, it's something like that.
Don Epps (25:31.147)Mm-hmm.
Rick Sola (25:34.722)But keep trying, keep at it. Yeah, I want to touch on too. There's another hashtag and I don't know how often or how long you've been using it, but I noticed it going back and I really liked it. It was hashtag joyful leaders. Where did that come from?
Don Epps (25:48.296)Yep, and so that's Bethany Hill. She is an administrator and actually works for a service center down in central Arkansas, and she's an amazing person. And Bethany Hill has been a beacon of light in education for a long time. And I just kept using it because I love it.
And it's not mine at all. She made it big probably around 2018, 19, but I just kept on trucking with it. I don't know if she even uses it. mean, she still uses it and things, but it's everyone. It's other people that's kind of taken off with it. And so I tried it. If I have enough characters left on the old Twitter, tried to, I tried to add it in there. KS leaders is when I put in first, if I, that's my number one go to the KS leaders. Cause I just, that family of, that family of leaders around the state of Kansas, but, but.
people see the joy and joy is visible and that's what we want.
Rick Sola (26:43.2)It's a good one. And I saw it most recently attached to the, to your boom box, welcome to students. But yeah, I just thought, you know, just that hashtag, even just in text, it just paints such a, a good picture. I think of what we all want. And as parents, I'm a parent, you're a parent and what you want your kids to come to school and be around joyful people and joyful leaders and joyful leadership will breed joyful outcomes around there. So, and, and, you know, I thought about,
Don Epps (26:48.393)Yeah.
Rick Sola (27:13.332)It's kind of a put your money where your mouth is. You're out there. You're singing, you're welcome. And it's like I mentioned earlier at the top of the show is there's a lot of inspiration to it. So I want to compliment you because I do see that. And it is inspiring. It's thought provoking, which is really what I think is the great piece of all of these different ways that we all share as leaders what we're doing in our schools. And it's really cool.
Don Epps (27:30.087)Yeah.
Absolutely. I want to emphasize one thing. I've never gotten a complaint from a parent because the kid came home too happy. know, there's this joy cycle and happy kids, happy parents, happy teachers, and it can start anywhere. You know, and so I truly, truly believe that if we can get in this joy cycle, your overall attitude and great things happen.
I think it's important that people see me smiling because that's, Hey, down deep. may be having a really rough day, but I'm using those moments for myself as much as I tell people all the time. Greeting kids is more for us selfish. It's more for me than the kids. You know, they're the ones that give me the fuel and seeing the parents and seeing our staff. And one thing I love, and I highly recommend this. I, we, just, I inherited this at Royster.
On the first day of school, we have a red carpet rolled out for the kids. And I've taken it from Royster. I did not start this. Okay. And it was electric. I have this theory I'll about in a second because it's really good stuff. I believe, but I took the, I took this red carpet idea from Royster to the blue blue J nation and our teachers had just loved it. First day of school, red carpets out and the spontaneous joy that it generates. is an incredible way to start the school year.
And we had this one young girl named Bayah and she jumped out of the car the first day of school last year and just spontaneously to cartwheel down the entryway to the school around. And this is like wasn't playing. It is spontaneous. It is amazing. And so it is set the tone. So this is what I'm going to say that I really believe in. You have to win the first 1 % of whatever you do. And when you're starting to school year, the more energy you have into the first 1 %
Rick Sola (29:09.698)That's awesome.
Don Epps (29:23.333)That sets the tone. I'm not saying you can't have a great school year with a bad 1 % start. My gosh, it's a lot harder. And it's overlooked. There's everyday moments we overlook or just let pass us by that we have to win. And how we start our day, how we start our class, how we start a school year really sets the tone for excitement, for expectations, for the joy. like I said before, how we do business.
We're in the business of supporting kids and helping kids grow into the greatest version of themselves. And that's what we do. That's what drives every day. so many people can say that.
Rick Sola (30:02.498)That's really good. I'm going to probably steal that when the first 1 % of what you do. That's really good. yeah, because we do naturally think of that first day and kind of the kickoff and the celebration. But you said also the first 1 % of your class every day. what a great positive mindset that just kind of builds on that joyful leader and chasing greatness. And that's fantastic.
Don Epps (30:06.918)yeah, there you go, Phelan!
Don Epps (30:16.901)Mm-hmm.
Don Epps (30:21.881)Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Rick Sola (30:32.064)So thinking about right now as superintendent, and I'm sorry, how many principles do you have in pledge?
Don Epps (30:37.891)Uh, we just have to, we're a small school district, so that's why I'm so involved. I do a lot of, I still do a lot of principal work and a lot of principal work and it's great. I love it. And I, I'm, I want to get our, we have amazing principals. Nathan Meek is our principal at our elementary school pre-K through six. And Sarah Conley is our seven through 12 principal, two amazing leaders in our school district and making a huge difference. But we want them to be a part of the PD process.
And so going to KPA, for example, doing those activities and through all these different USA, Kansas and emerging leaders. And, and so what we, so they've, I'm very, very happy they've been a part of those last two years. So it gives me opportunities to go into the buildings, you know, and support the buildings. And so that's, it's been very exciting as well.
Rick Sola (31:27.532)So you've got a couple of principles and maybe to your teachers, what's the message you give them right now? It's February, the of the weary months of the winter, can kind of be, know, just unpredictable might be a case if we're looking at snow days, but there's a lot of holidays, a lot of kind of kind of start and stops this time of year, but what's the message that you find is important?
Don Epps (31:49.589)So what I always believe, I think we need to be building for something great. And I'm not one of those that come out and say, well, welcome to day 400 of January. I'm not one of those types of people, know, because I think that's a negative mindset. So like right now we have we have a really big greenhouse project brewing in our school district that's going to impact K through 12. We want to grant have a greenhouse container.
And then we're going to now we're going to build a greenhouse to go along traditional greenhouse, go along with it. And all the reason I mentioned that is that that just built excitement. So yesterday we went and visited one prototype and we're going to be getting one in late April. So we're building something great, but as a building principle spring was something that everybody looks forward to for a lot of different reasons, but it's really January through that mid March spring break era.
where we built excitement. we did something called Test the Palooza and it was a phenomenon. We turned state testing into an absolute insanity event. I mean, was a mundane into something exciting. State testing brings so much anxiety and stress to everybody and we just flipped it. And that's a whole nother topic Rick. So, hey, if you ever get, a top, we need to spend 30, 40 minutes on my Test the Palooza.
Rick Sola (33:06.4)Yeah.
Don Epps (33:10.428)But what the teachers were so active in bank that they would have countdown videos at Royster. And we had all, we had these, it was such a process getting ready for this, that it built excitement. And so I believe that every day we have to have something positive to focus on. And that was kind of test blues with something really amazing. I felt I'm so proud of, I'm just barely mentioned it, but maybe everyone's talking about, you know, test Palooza. I'm always down. I'm always.
Rick Sola (33:39.554)That is intriguing because when you just hear testapalooza, there is an initial thought of, gosh, the testing. But yeah, palooza, there's a lot of fun that goes with that. So yeah, definitely intriguing. That's definitely another topic to discuss on here at some point. No, I love that. It sounds like so many great things happening out there in Blue Jay Nation, as you call it, out in Pleasanton.
Don Epps (34:08.563)Yeah.
Rick Sola (34:09.802)And that's what I do want to give you a chance. You've already shouted out and kind of spoke very highly of your people and your community. But I love to give that opportunity like the stage is yours. Bragging your people, Blue Jay Nation. Let's hear it.
Don Epps (34:23.708)Well, first of I have an amazing school board that supports me. they get me and they just kind of turned me loose to be who I am. And so I'm so appreciative of that. And like I said, our principals lead incredible schools and our staff. we try, our mission in life is connect great people with great kids, you know, and people make the difference every single day.
So how we greet kids on the school bus or how they get to school or throughout the entire day. So I'm just so honored to be a part of this great, great community. The community that I grew up in, and I think that was a lot of reverence. There are so many wonderful people that I think of that are no longer with us in this community. I want to help continue that legacy. But Mr. Meek and Mrs. Conley.
they're leading great schools and they'd be great guests to have on here too. But I want to emphasize one thing, people make the difference every single time. And we want everyone to feel like they are the single most important person in that moment at that time. Like when a teacher walks in the classroom, they feel that it's a self-efficacy unleashed where there is no one better for that kid right now than them. And then when you think of that as a school, you can do anything.
It's over. mean, you can do anything you want. And we want everybody to feel that way and to feel that kind of control. Effective leaders, great leaders know how to release control. It's not about empowering, it's about releasing control to let great people do great work. so that's, and I can't fail to mention my wife, Vicki, who is a saint, who there is someday, far, far from now, going to be a place in heaven for her to be married to me. And so,
Rick Sola (36:18.164)That's awesome.
Don Epps (36:18.34)I'm way beyond my great looks, you know, you know, lot more. I'm an onion, you know, lot of layers. so literally, but, and, so I just, my wife and kids that's been so patient with me and so loving and supportive. And so, so, cause they, they, lot of times take, they, they take the burden of this. You know, I come home with some of the struggles and I'm always doing schools related things and they join me. They come along with me and they, we make it a family event.
Rick Sola (36:48.13)Well, you know, I mentioned earlier the inspiration I see from a lot of your posts and some of that truly does come from, because your family is part of several, a lot of your posts, you know, and family's a big part of all of our lives. I've got, you know, three kids, myself, a wife, and you just hit on it. Our job can be in some way, there can be kind of some burden when you go home, it's sitting on you. And oftentimes that can
Don Epps (37:14.234)Mm-hmm.
Rick Sola (37:17.74)can translate. the support, you talk about an episode topic for the show, support at home, from home, from spouses, from kids, and the understanding of, someone once said to me, we don't have an occupation, we have a lifestyle, that we're all in, and it's such a privilege, I wouldn't want to do anything else, but you're right, there's kind of,
Don Epps (37:25.562)Yeah.
Don Epps (37:34.314)Exactly!
Rick Sola (37:47.09)We talk about that balance at home, and I don't know if it's truly a 50-50 type balance, but there's certainly a, I don't know what the word would be, a touch to it. And that understanding of a spouse or a family, I think it's critical in our role.
Don Epps (37:56.474)Mm-hmm.
Don Epps (38:04.313)Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no, Rick, you said it. And what you're doing with this podcast is so critically important to education. We're together in this and we all, and I, it's like therapy to listen, you know, and, and, and the excitement, listen to Melissa Evans talk, you know, she's awesome. You know, there's so many great leaders around the sunflower state. I'm, so humbled, but everybody, we need those stories out there.
We got to hear and be inspired by them and grow from them. And so you're doing amazing work, Rick. We appreciate you so much.
Rick Sola (38:38.23)Well, thanks for listening and that's exactly kind of what this is for. There's so many great leaders and I've mentioned to it many times on just the connections being made on this show, but it's really just sharing the stories. We all can empathize to some degree, relate to some degree and truly make connections with people that we may not otherwise be able to connect with. And so, yeah, thank you for that. Thanks for listening. But it's really all about the stories and the people that are out there.
providing their own flavor of leadership across this state. And I think you mentioned it earlier that we all have something to offer that's unique to us. And the tap into that is an important piece. Well, Don, know it's busy. It's after a long day. the invite to come to our lunchroom any day stands. So you come up to Chisholm Trail. We'll get you down there. We'll queue up Church Clap. And we'll let it go.
Don Epps (39:15.842)Mm-hmm.
Don Epps (39:30.538)Yes.
All right.
All right, I'm gonna go buy get Dr. Yeager. We're gonna combine my school tours and we're gonna rock and roll. So.
Rick Sola (39:40.48)Hey, perfect. Yeah, bring them along. That'll be great. So.
Don Epps (39:44.747)So, but no, you just keep doing great work, Rick. I'm proud of you and I appreciate you so much.
Rick Sola (39:50.208)Well, I appreciate it. And it sounds like great things in Pleasanton. And we'll keep on following on the social media. And I'll put some things in the show notes there. And just also, you reference the great leaders in this state. If anybody's listening has any thought, there is a form that can be filled out. Feel free to submit that. Recommend someone that we could bring on the show. Share their story and their impact that's happening all over their district.
Don Epps (40:11.744)Mm-hmm.
Rick Sola (40:18.806)But Don, hey, thanks a lot. I'll let you go. And let's go Chiefs this weekend. All right.
Don Epps (40:21.462)No chiefs, we got this baby. I got the three Pete.
Rick Sola (40:27.154)All right, hey, take care. Thank you.
Don Epps (40:29.184)Thank you.
 

CC#31: Artificial Intelligence w/ Trevor Goertzen

In Cool Coffee 31, Mr. Trevor Goertzen, former KPA communications director, catches us up on his most recent endeavor, that of AI in the schools. Now with SchoolAI, Trevor talks about how this new frontier for schools can, and is already, changing things in the classroom and schools...for the better! For those wondering about AI, Trevor peels back some of the possibilities and issues in this Cool Coffee w/ Kansas Principals.
Connect with Trevor Goertzen:
X: @Goertzen_edu
Connect thru email at trevor@schoolai.com
(full transcript and chapters of the episode below)
 
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Leave show suggestions, guest recommendations, questions HERE!
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Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee
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Contact the host: @MrRickSola, rfsola@olatheschools.org, or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com
The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
Read more about the KPA HERE.
AI Generated Chapters (do not account for intro--time is 30 seconds off)
00:00Introduction to Cool Coffee and AI in Education
03:01Trevor Goertzen's Journey in Education
06:01The Evolution of the Kansas Principals Association Podcast
08:55The Role of AI in Education
11:57Transforming Education with AI Tools
15:01AI as a Personalized Learning Assistant
18:11Addressing Concerns About AI in Schools
20:54Creating an Academic Ecosystem with AI
23:50The Future of AI in Education
25:59Language Accessibility and AI
29:58AI Literacy and Responsibility
31:59AI's Role in School Administration
35:03Practical AI Applications for Educators
39:04The Human Element in AI
41:03The Future Landscape of AI in Classrooms
 
AI Generated Transcript
Rick Sola (00:01.734)Hello and welcome to another edition of Cool Coffee. I have here with me today a very familiar voice, the original voice of the KPA podcast when it was Kansas principals. Listen up. It's Mr. Trevor Gertson from School AI. Hello, Trevor.
Trevor Goertzen (00:20.82)for a while Rick. Excited to be here and appreciate the opportunity to share with Kansas administrators and a little bit about the history of the Listen Up podcast and now Cool Coffee by Rick Sola. So love it man, appreciate the opportunity.
Rick Sola (00:33.202)Yeah. No, it's awesome. And I guess before we get started, I will just give you a quick shout out. So you did your podcast and I've listened to several of those and we talked and you were more than willing to receive my outreach and talk through with me how you did your podcast and so much of how this got started. I credit to you. So I really appreciate it. It's been a lot of fun and
Now it's just, awesome to have you here on the show talking about your, your new endeavor with, with artificial intelligence and school AI.
Trevor Goertzen (01:10.97)You're gonna scare some people off talking about AI too much here, Rick, but yeah, it's been quite a journey. If you had asked me, man, three years ago, if I would be in my home office talking about AI, I would have never believed it. I had always anticipated being a principal and then an HR director and a superintendent.
That is what I assumed my career path would be when I had the honor of serving as a teacher and principal. The good Lord had different plans though and I'm thrilled to have the opportunity to continue working with teachers, continue working with students through the capacity that I do now at School AI. It's been a challenge to get out of directly being within the school system. There's definitely some things you get used to when you spend the majority of your career within kind of the day to day.
ebb and flow of public education, then you step out of that into startup culture, it is a drastic shift. And it's a change that I'm still getting used to as I answer my third year of being out, and no longer specifically. I still teach, I still teach for a university in Arkansas, so I'm an adjunct professor, I teach education law.
and I teach educational technology. So that'll be about my seventh, eighth year of doing that. So I still like to say I'm an active educator. At the collegiate level, I teach graduate school, and so that keeps me as engaged and possible. And every once in while, I think about coming back and subbing, just for the fun of it, just to get back in the school building and subsum. But I'm not sure about that. I don't know, Rick, if you ever need any subs, so.
Rick Sola (02:48.4)Well, we do need subs actually and we'll take dibs on you here actually. Subs can be a short supply especially as we get into some of these, I don't know, some of these colder months or even the warmer months or Fridays or Tuesdays or you know, whatever. Yeah.
Trevor Goertzen (02:54.454)You
Trevor Goertzen (03:01.976)Yes.
Any day. Red Friday, red Monday, you pick it, you pick it.
Rick Sola (03:10.266)Yeah, yeah, as we record this, it's January 3rd and we're like on the cusp of snowmageddon as it's getting talked about a couple days away from, I don't know, up to 15 inches or so. So who knows, who knows? But you mentioned kind of being out of the school for the last three years. One thing I like to do on the show is have guests share about their road to the chair that they're currently in.
Trevor Goertzen (03:16.298)Snowmageddon.
Trevor Goertzen (03:24.696)We'll see.
Rick Sola (03:37.732)you've gone through the principal chair, but kind of going all the way back to your beginnings in education to what led you here today.
Trevor Goertzen (03:46.99)Yeah, so it started in 2000, man, 2001, even in college. I went to Hardin University in Arkansas and even then I was starting to fill in in schools and help out. I knew I wanted to be a teacher from a very early age and so that was the path I wanted. So we even started doing a little bit of subbing while I was in college but I got my first job at Prairie Star Middle School, Blue Valley Schools in 2006.
I spent nine years in the classroom as a social studies English language arts teacher, coached football, wrestling, track and field, driver's ed instructor, summer camp counselor. I was an 1860s reenactor at a Haffey stage coach and I was a blacksmith for a couple summers. Like you do a little bit of everything when you're a teacher just to make extra cash and stay busy. One of the highlights though is I got my national board certification.
Rick Sola (04:33.142)awesome.
Trevor Goertzen (04:41.546)in my eighth year of teaching. And so I went through the national board process. That was an incredible process. Still, I think one of the most beneficial things an educator can do is go through the national board process as a teacher. From there, I went and worked at district office in Blue Valley for a year. was essentially what you might call like an instructional coach. We were called the educational support team at the time.
name changes every couple of years, but I was a mentor for first year teachers as well as national board candidates. Spent a year doing that, absolutely loved it. As you know, when you kind of change levels, you change perspectives. And when I had that position,
with the district and Blue Valley had 30,000 students, 30 some schools. I went from knowing about what was going on in one middle school to now I'm looking at nine middle schools, five high schools, 30 elementaries and it changes your perspective on how education works and how it operates. And that was a really pivotal year for me when I worked in district office, but it also made me realize I want to give back to kids. And so that following year, an opportunity at Spring Hill came up and I headed to Spring Hill.
and I spent six years as the principal assistant and then principal in Spring Hill Middle School. That was pre-COVID, during COVID and post-COVID. So I still vividly remember Friday the 13th. Friday the 13th, Black Friday of that year. I just hired the best teacher ever and I was so excited because we were like, can we bring her in for an interview? This is Friday the 13th. We're like, we're doing it. We know there's something out there, but she's coming in. Still one of the best teachers I've ever hired in the Mississippi.
Rick Sola (06:00.658)The best of all worlds.
Trevor Goertzen (06:20.718)But yeah, that was a real turning point in lot of ways. It was those years of COVID. It really kind of made you kind of pause, think back and reflect. Had an incredible staff in those six years in Spring Hill. It was a 6'8 building, great team. Front office staff, the assistants that I worked with, the coaches, administration. Really, really enjoyed it. But one of the things I loved the most about my time as a principal was the Kansas Principals Association.
And at the time, it was actually broken up into elementary and secondary. And so we had two, essentially two different organizations that operated, your elementary principal association and your secondary principals association. And so about midway through, we merged those together into the Kansas principals association. And that was an incredible experience, both as a part of it. And then I don't even remember when, midway through,
I got to know the then director of it, it's a gentleman named Brett Church. He asked me if I had any interest in being the communication director. I was like, this sounds like fun. What does it do? He's like, I don't know, figure it out. And so somewhere along the way, I think I just heard myself and the other principal Rod Sprague, I just heard George Kuros talk. And one of the things that George Kuros had said was something to the extent of, if you're not telling your story, someone else will.
And that made me really realize that people don't know what's going on in a school. They don't know. They have all these assumptions about what's happening, but they really didn't know what was going on day to day. So the original dream was let's interview Kansas principals and let's have them tell their school story. Tell them the highs, the lows, the good, the bad that's going on and try to humanize administrators.
And so that's really where it started was Listen Up was designed to humanize Kansas principals, Kansas administrators, tell the stories that other people are not going to hear. And it was so, so cool. Just not only for me professionally, and I'm sure you've noticed this, Rick, like you learn more when you hear someone else share.
Trevor Goertzen (08:28.482)But getting to hear what people are doing across the state, whether it was in small little Galena, Kansas, or a big district like Olathe, and I forget his name now, but at the time he was Olathe South High School Principal. Now he's somewhere there in the board office. Clint Alberts, he did an episode. I shared it with the superintendent at the time, and he then shared it out to the entire district, and shared it out in the parents and community.
Rick Sola (08:44.594)Clint Albers.
Trevor Goertzen (08:55.95)Email it gives a source of pride and that was what I would actually hear again again from superintendents Even from board members. It was there was a source of pride when the community could hear what was going on with their administrators and that was such a cool experience to know that we were we were a part of that at kpa is Share the stories learning together celebrating what each and every different school was a part of
So what started out as just kind of an idea because of a George Kouros session kind of blossomed into three years of a great experience sharing with principals across Kansas. And so glad you're able to carry it forward, Rick, and continue to keep bringing those voices out for administrators as well.
Rick Sola (09:42.054)Well, it has been a lot of fun and that's one of the biggest values. And I've said this multiple times on this show, but just that the connections from across the state, hearing what's going on across the state and by my goal, if you will, is to share those really positive things that are happening all across the state and buildings all across the state with others in the same position. And just in my time with KPA and sitting down next to
principles in other communities in other parts of the state. there's just so much value in that you can't replace it. then, you know, of course, and you probably know this selfishly, just being the one to be able to converse with principles on this platform. You know, I'm I'm learning a ton. I'm taking notes as I'm having these conversations. And, you know, that's my hope is that someone's listening and being able to do the same thing and kind of scratch your head like, oh, that's a really good idea. I've done this for 20 years, but I haven't thought of it that way before.
And so let's give it a shot.
Trevor Goertzen (10:42.26)from. could be itty bitty schools, huge schools. They all have great ideas and great things to share.
Rick Sola (10:47.632)Yeah. So you are in a different world now. You're in an artificial world. No, artificial intelligence.
Trevor Goertzen (10:52.514)Yeah.
Rick Sola (10:58.918)But with my own staff and full transparency, guess to kind of make a long story short, back to USA, Kansas in the spring of 24, my administrative team, we went and one of my assistant principals attended an AI session. And we started talking about this throughout the course of the school year. we had, both of us ironically had connections to you and
reached out and so the full transparency is, is I asked you to come out and just kind of present a little bit on AI and I described it to my staff as the new frontier. And I don't know if that's totally accurate or Trevor if you would even agree with that, but I kind of just view it as it's, at least at our point, the way I feel anyway, it's very much, there's a lot of unknown, we're not really sure. We have some story, you talk about telling your story, some people will tell the AI story.
It can be pretty either bleaker or scary, or it could be something that's, you know, all something, something different altogether. But he came in, did a great job, super engaging, just to kind of bring some insight as what does AI or what can it look like inside the schools? And that's what I'd love to hear and have this shared on. I have you share on this show just a little bit about about that in particular, artificial intelligence in the schools.
Trevor Goertzen (12:28.334)Well, it's one of those things that I was not a fan of AI. Even when I first heard about School AI, which is the opportunity I serve now with School AI, at the time, I was working for an eSports company. And that's actually what led me out of education originally was the opportunity to work for a company called Generation eSports. I'd never planned on leaving, but was in DC at an awards event and was approached to come join an eSports team.
and help schools grow their e-sports programs. I was like, I don't even like video games, but I see the value in having a team for every kid. And so that's part of what led me to step out of administration. was getting ready to open a brand new middle school, was gonna be the KPA president the next year. Things were going good, but I think it was time for a change. I think we all have that time in our life where like, I think I just wanna do something different for a little bit. Midpoint in my career, let's mix it up.
But fast forward a little over a year ago, I met the founder of School AI at an event. And at the time I was very much opposed to AI. All I could see was the downsides. I didn't see any benefit in it. All I saw was it wiping out critical thinking skills, wiping out independent work.
wiping out anything that forced someone to kind of challenge themselves. And I kind of viewed it as the ultimate easy button for students, for staff, for a lot of people. But what I come to find out, specifically with School AI and others, is AI becomes a tool for the purpose you have. And we say frequently at School AI, AI is not the thing, it's the thing that gets you to the thing.
So when you look at it as a tool to help you as an educator, maybe it's expand your skills, to reach individual students that you could never reach before, to give a voice to the voiceless child, that's what made me go, there's something really, really special here. And I remember the founder of Schooly I talked about giving his own son a personalized chat bot to help him with his classwork. And that really struck me as a...
Trevor Goertzen (14:37.002)man, we all have those students. We all have those students that struggle to work, struggle to keep up, and the reality is there's just not enough time in the day or enough staff in the day to keep up with that. As much as we try, it's just not there. But AI can come alongside and do that. And so when I thought about all the scary things at doing the work, and I started to go, wait a minute, there's some really innovative...
personal special ways that the right AI resource can support what a teacher is doing to enhance what a teacher is doing, to give a voice to students who had no voice before. It really changed my mind to what AI is all about. And since then, I'm a total convert. I'm a total convert. I use AI in so many different aspects of my personal life, professional life.
whether it is building and developing like personal fitness plans for myself, whether it is using it to, I used it the other night, I was teaching a Bible class out of my church and I used it to help me build my lessons because it gave me depth of learning that I wouldn't have been able to find otherwise. And so what AI allows you to do is gain knowledge base that is already out there.
but you're gaining it faster and more efficiently and at the pace and rate in which you want. So when you think about individual students, see you have a kid who's sitting in a sixth grade math classroom that is just lost and behind. No matter how much that teacher wants to get back there, there's 30 other kids they have to meet with.
but you give that kid their own personal chat bot, a school AI space, and now they have their own individual tutor, their own individual assistant, but the teacher's the one that drives that experience, man, I want every kid to have that. I want every kid to have their own support.
Rick Sola (16:26.396)So kind of paint that picture. So I'm trying to picture a classroom. I'm former social studies teacher myself. And you're working with the other 30 students. And you've got one or two that they're getting some help. They need your help. You need to kind peel away and address other parts of the classroom, other students. You talk about a personal assistant. Paint that picture for us. What is that literally going to look like in the classroom?
Trevor Goertzen (16:51.65)Yep. Yep, yep. So, and I'll be very specific with School AI just to be really candid. There's other resources out there than just ours. But what I love about School AI is School AI uses the same engines or same large language models that you would personally use if you went to Claude, Co-Pilot, OpenAI, or ChatGPT. But those engines have filters and parameters built into to make it more educationally sound and educationally appropriate.
So whatever information you put in it is not used to train it. And also when that information comes back to the user, it's more educationally minded, it's filtered for inaccuracy, it ensures that it's not going to say anything inappropriate, whether it's racial or sexual or gambling or alcohol, it doesn't allow that to take place. So you give in a student a chat bot that uses OpenAI Anthropic Cloud.
But you as a teacher design it. So if a young first year Mr. Rick Soul is in his classroom and he has kids on the high and the low end, you could quickly go to School AI and create a space and you could call it Little Billy's Helper. And you could literally say, support Billy in his class work, do not give answers, only provide feedback.
you can what we call launch, which is share. So think like a cahoots. You share a link, you share QR code, you share through Google Classroom, and you tell Billy, hey, jump on, your assistant is ready to help you. So when that student joins that space or their thought partner, their chat bot, it begins a series of Socratic style conversations with the student. It might say, hey Billy, what can I help you with today? Billy says, I don't get it.
the ARO respond back, what don't you get? I don't get class. And then it will say something of what about class do you not understand? I don't understand immigration.
Trevor Goertzen (18:50.826)Okay, so now as AI is listening to what Billy's saying, it's adapting, it's making suggestions, and it's providing help and support to clarify for that individual student. Now, on the other end of the spectrum, if you have a student that is highly advanced and so far ahead of the classroom, you build them a space, you launch it to them, and now they're going further and deeper than anyone in the class is because now they're gonna go at the pace that they want to go.
But the beautiful thing about School AI is for Mr. First-year teacher Rick Sola, he can then see everything those students are saying and doing within that chat space.
So he can go back and see, what is Billy asking about? What gaps does Billy have that I can go back and support? So again, it's not replacing what Rick is doing as a teacher. It's only giving him more insights that he had before. So you're supporting your student, but you're also giving the teacher insight to then provide additional resources, excuse me, learning for that individual student.
Rick Sola (19:54.898)So as you work, because I know you work with schools really all across the country now, what are, and I'm sure you encounter some different pushback or concerns or fears even, what's the most common thing that you hear that's really kind of the thanks but no thanks mentality? What is shared from the school perspective?
Trevor Goertzen (19:59.533)Yep.
Trevor Goertzen (20:18.764)Yeah, it used to be data privacy or data concerns.
That has kind of gone away as people understand more about what is actually going on with student data. So that PII is a common one and that's kind of one of the important things about going with someone like School.ai is that we do have the ability to secure the data. It's not going out and used by the AI companies, which when you use OpenAI it is, but you have that security piece. The other thing that people are always concerned about is it's just gonna make kids dumber. They'll even tell me that it's gonna make them dumber. They're not gonna have to think for themselves.
because it's going to do it for them. And that's a total misunderstanding of what AI is designed to do. Now, could it do that? 100%. You could design, you could give a kid access to chat GPT and it could write every term paper that kid ever needs. It can do that. But that's not what something like a school AI is designed to do. A school AI is designed to be a thought partner for that student and keep them within the parameters and boundaries that the teacher designed.
And so once somebody sees that, it's like, now I see that it's like a bowling alley. When you lift those bumpers, the kid has to stay within the lane of those bumpers. So once somebody sees that and they understand it, then it's like the blinders fall off and they're like, okay.
Now I get why this would be beneficial. And once you kind of get past those data privacy fears and the kids are just gonna cheat fears, now it's like, let's go. Now there's some things we can do to help kids out.
Rick Sola (21:53.532)So is it accurate to say this is, like you've created an ecosystem? Is that the right word or is it, how would you describe it?
Trevor Goertzen (22:02.25)Yeah, I like that word and I'll even use that word specifically with like school AI as we've created an academic ecosphere because not only do you use it for like individual student support, student tutoring, you may, and you also can use it for like we have schools that's within our chatbots or spaces. You can upload or download.
your HR handbooks, your training manuals, your student handbooks, and then you can use and create a chat bot that helps people get any question answered that is within those handbooks. So if you have a new student to campus who knows nothing about Chisholm Trail,
and you give them access to that school AI space, any question they have about school is gonna reference back to the handbook that is there. Now, would they have flipped through that handbook? Probably not. But might they ask the chat body question? Yeah, that's something that's a little more easy to do. So you have the ability to have a more broad scope support system.
Rick Sola (23:02.002)And so
Rick Sola (23:07.186)So I'm going to make sure I understand and maybe for listeners, I have the school handbook, the 550 page or whatever it is, school handbook. It's big one. Yeah, it's very thorough. No, but that gets uploaded through School AI. It's in the system. And I create the space. Parents can get to it, whether linked through a website or shared or whatever the case. And they go in there and like, oh, what
Trevor Goertzen (23:17.048)Big one.
Yeah.
Rick Sola (23:36.954)Yeah, what's the lunch policy? Are they allowed to go into the snack line or whatever and they just type it in and it just responds like ask Jeeves back in the day? Is that kind of the deal or?
Trevor Goertzen (23:47.694)I haven't heard somebody describe it like that, but 100 % Rick, that's exactly what it's going to do. Yes. No, that's exactly it. It's just going to reference to the information provided.
Rick Sola (23:49.65)That's how far back I go, Trevor.
Trevor Goertzen (23:58.656)And so that's kind of the beautiful thing is you can give it its data source to ensure that it's being accurate and it's being consistent with what you want it to do. Now, 550 pages might be too big for the platform to hold, but like where we're headed as a like school AI is the ability for its school district. So Olathe Public Schools, Spring Hill Schools, Cinnamon Valley, Cinnamon Valley, Simran Valley Schools, like you could upload and have given access to all of your
Rick Sola (24:13.586)Fork.
Trevor Goertzen (24:28.12)district-wide information, training manuals, handbooks, guide, Board of Education, curriculum resources, and then everything a teacher builds or all the spaces they build reference back to those materials and items. So then you ensure that everything is designing are based upon the district priorities and district guidelines.
That's where things are going with it. Even the ability to give individual students, I'm go back to little Rick Sola in second grade who starts using a space that starts to learn how he thinks and how he operates and starts providing you assistance based upon the areas that you struggle. Not doing it for you, but providing assistance and support.
when you start to go, man, this gets it gets bigger and bigger on what it's going to do. And then you start thinking out of these equity conversations about every kid needs access and there's no barriers. It doesn't matter where you live, you have access to those resources.
Rick Sola (25:30.576)So for the record, our handbook is not 550 pages. Just for the record, for the, you know, I don't need any added judgment out there, but, but no, you know, one thing that we had talked about before, and you actually had demoed this for me and just incredible. And I think about the, just the diverse languages that we have all across our state. And you talk about the handbook, a family that's new, it's January, we're all coming back from break.
Trevor Goertzen (25:33.824)Okay, I was wondering.
Rick Sola (25:59.602)I know our building's got a few new students from different parts of the state, different parts of the country, and in some cases, different parts of the world, but English not being a native language. That demo that you showed as far as how quickly and easily the language translation occurs, is that something, can you describe that in the classroom, real-time use of interpretation?
Trevor Goertzen (26:22.284)Yeah, Yep, yep.
So I met a student, his name is Suleyman. Now Suleyman was a sixth grade student in Jordan, Utah, which is a suburb of Salt Lake City. Suleyman is a refugee student. He came to the US earlier this, well, this was December of last year. So he came in early fall of 2023, I think it would have been. He's staying with a host family, so he's not even with his own family. He speaks very, very little English.
When he came to the middle school, his principal, Eric Price, built for him a schooly-eye space. And it spoke English and Dari at the same time. Dari was his Afghan, the language he spoke in Afghanistan. No one else on the school campus spoke Dari. The boy also loved Lionel Messi in the Premier League. So the principal within the prompt said, Suleiman loves the Premier League, loves Lionel Messi.
And so what Suleiman would use the space for is when he's sitting in class, he would ask questions. And oftentimes the questions were more questions not about his ability, but about a language issue. So he shared one example of you're sitting in math class and the teacher was talking about slope.
Suleiman, he showed me the chat so I could see it. He showed me the chat, he had asked, what is slope? Now he is asking it in Dari. It's responding both in Dari and English to help him learn English, but in the response it referenced a mountain range in Afghanistan.
Trevor Goertzen (27:57.646)And so for him, not only did it give him the answer, but it gave him a visualization that only AI could provide referencing a mountain range that he knew in Afghanistan. So when you think about like...
Like very, it's complex but simple version is, you take that kid who's non-English speaking or limited English proficiency, and now you're giving them their own personal tutor that can operate in their native language and in the language you're trying to help them learn in the United States. So for them, it becomes their own personal assistant guide.
And for a kid who felt lost and didn't have anyone to ask, there's no one else that knew Dari in that school, but his AI chatbot did. So that's where you'd go for help.
Rick Sola (28:39.826)You hit on something there that's really just an important piece, which is that language versus ability. And how many times are we working with students who may not have the strength and the language that's being taught. And so it's being interpreted as some form of learning disability.
Trevor Goertzen (28:49.251)Yeah.
Trevor Goertzen (28:59.426)Yeah. They don't need special ed services. just, yeah. Yes. man.
Rick Sola (29:03.654)Yeah, yeah, no, that's, you know, I go back to, and I just outed myself a little bit ago about how far back I go when I referenced Ask Jeeves, but I do remember when Google came onto the scene, and I was an early, early social studies teacher, and it was a district professional development day. I'm in a room with a bunch of all levels of social studies teachers, and we're having this debate on Google and whether it should be used.
Trevor Goertzen (29:14.124)Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Rick Sola (29:32.026)in the classroom or not. And you had two camps. had those who kind of like what you're saying about AI. It's going to make kids dumber. They're not going to cheat. It's not going to help them grow. And then on the other side was Google's here to stay. And we can teach them how to use it and use some discernment as they look up information. Not everything's going to be applicable.
It kind of reminds me of where we're at a little bit with AI. I don't see AI going anywhere. I definitely have appreciated recently, most recently on Amazon, I have the AI generated feedback of kind of all the ratings that just kind of summarize in a nice little form. I don't see AI going away, but I do think it's important that you had used the phrase before AI literacy. I think we need to think about AI literacy and AI.
AI responsibility and how that's going to look in our schools and probably something that we need to start being really proactive about teaching our kids about kind of the good AI and the maybe the bad AI or how to discern AI. What are your
Trevor Goertzen (30:41.294)Yeah.
Yeah, totally. Well, and again, it comes back to what world are we trying to set our kids up for? Are we setting them up for the ability to be independent thinkers, have wisdom and discernment? In the same way that we're having those debates with the Google versus a kid reading something or going to an encyclopedia, we've continued to evolve and change how knowledge is accessed. And so the ability to teach someone to critically think and go,
real I think I shared the example this morning I saw a video yesterday of a cat making spaghetti and it was the most perfect video of a cat dicing carrots and browning hamburger and making noodles and I mean by golly if you didn't know any better you would really think that cat was making him 100 % AI generated
you still have to have the ability to look at something, hear something, read something, go, I need to confirm that this is correct and accurate. But on the same note, how do you do that? Because there might be situations that you need to be able to use and create and build content, develop resources that utilize those different AI platforms. So to just assume a kid will figure it out later, eventually.
eventually, but how many students can we look at that have a leg up because they learned to read a little bit earlier in life? They're exposed to resources earlier in life. What does that do for them down the road? We know its significance. I believe it's gonna have a similar impact with AI.
Rick Sola (32:13.35)Yeah, it's not just about the learning the content, but in that situation you shared with the multiple languages at once, it's teaching a student how to read and write English along with their native language. so, yeah, just really incredible. as I sit here, I'm a principal of a middle school building and other principals listening. What do I as a principal need to know about AI right now?
Trevor Goertzen (32:28.13)Yeah. Yeah.
Trevor Goertzen (32:41.548)Yeah, so what I'm gonna tell you is I wouldn't be surprised if half your students were already using on their cell phones every day. Is that they're on chat GPT. I have a niece that's in a local school district, she's a sophomore. Her school district does not believe in AI, so she pays for her own chat GPT Turbo subscription. She uses it her phone throughout the day. Now, she's using her resources because she knows it's helping her be a better student.
had a school provided her with that, she would have the same power, both in a more constructive, guided environment. So the first thing I tell you is more than likely, students are using it. They're already accessing it on a variety of devices in a variety of ways. And the second thing I'd kind of lean to is the idea that to save your staff a lot of time and effort and give your staff back the day-to-day work that they were doing before that is remedial stuff, there's a lot that AI can
do to support individual teacher time. So whether it's lesson planning, emails, content creation, idea generation, AI can accelerate that and allow the teachers to work more directly with kids to meet those SEL needs at a deeper level. So the thing I tell principal is it's there. If you think it's not, it is. If your district's afraid of it, take a step back.
Really investigate what it's doing verse what maybe you're hearing on social media or you're hearing on select news channels that are telling you What is incorrectly actually happening with AI? And I also encourage you to be brave be brave and try Take little small groups of teachers try things out use different resources out there Open eyes great. Just go to Chad GPT use perplexity You don't have to pay for a subscription service to have great resources. There's a lot of good options out there for you
Rick Sola (34:33.254)So in a quick rapid fire, two or three things, what could AI do to make my day easier so I can be out mixing in with kids and building those relationships? Because one thing we haven't touched on, but I know your view on this, which is AI is not here to replace a relationship. Just because you have a digital tutor with you, that's not replacing the teacher relationship, which is also so valuable.
Trevor Goertzen (34:37.614)Yep.
Rick Sola (35:03.162)If I want to really maintain that, what would be something, two or three things that you could say, hey, right now you could have AI help you with this and you're freed up to do some other things?
Trevor Goertzen (35:12.654)Yeah.
I would say first and foremost kind of long-term planning and I think that's a big one as far as when you're looking at and not having to spend as much time on long-term planning within a less environment. Second thing being emails and responding back to emails. One of the things I love to do is have it read through and summarize emails for me. I think that's been a real benefit for me. And then even one of the things that you can do is it expedites your thoughts and gives you quicker responses
when you're working through problems and situations. So you have a challenging student, a challenging staff member, an environment you're not quite sure what to do with, ask AI, ask co-teacher, ask chat GPT, how do I handle this situation? And you'll quickly find that it gives you responses and allows you to move quicker because you have more access to information. So whether it's a, I don't know what to do with this particular student.
throw it out there to OpenAI and see what ideas it gives you. That's probably one of the quickest things that I've done for time saving is it allows me to get through content faster. The last thing I'll throw out too is summarizing large amounts of information. So if I have a document to read, if I have a district policy to go through, if I have news, something from state level or even a piece of literature I want.
put that in one of the AI prompts and ask it to summarize it for you, boom, you're gonna have like three quick summarization points of what you were just supposed to read and allows you to get, move through things quicker and faster and more efficiently.
Rick Sola (36:44.754)Yeah, I imagine too with some of the maybe quick turnaround of certain emails, it could be a really good starting point. You know, I always feel like whether it's a communication I've been asked to send, I always like to kind of read through it. I want my voice there, that sort of thing. Do you have any guidance for just general discernment when it comes to, I guess how accurate is the information? Do we rely on, 100 % it's accurate or hey,
Kind of like Google back in the day, it's really good, it might not be, you know, got to use some discernment on that and make sure you're sharing good information.
Trevor Goertzen (37:25.07)So here's my first thought, hopefully it's not counter- say, don't outsource your brand AI. One of the things that I have already found is there's an easy button there if you want to use it. I could have it respond to every email, but I don't think that's the right thing to do. I don't think that's the best thing to do. There's a lot of things that you're going to start seeing people do, even when it comes to AI avatars that do trainings for you.
There's gonna be a temptation, Rick, for you guys as a staff, as an administrative team, to have AI create and do your trainings for you. Do your PDs for you. There might be a perk and benefit to that because it saves you time from having to get in front and do some of those trainings. But you lose that personal connection piece. You could have it do your, call it the Russell Flat, the Jason Flat Act. You could have it do those trainings for you.
but you miss out on some of those personalization conversations you have when you go through that training together. So one thing I encourage people is don't outsource your brain to AI and ensure that you're still the one that's driving what it's doing and how it's operating. And don't be afraid to hit pause on it and be like, eh, I don't think that's correct. That doesn't sound right to me.
Rick Sola (38:39.346)Yeah, I think that's where, you know, judgment is so critical. We're in the people business. have, you know, there's so much that comes our way and it could be easy to turn on that, like you said, that easy button. But at the end of the day, it's the relationships, it's the connections, and that's what we all thrive on. And that's honestly, that's what we are promoting as.
part of our schools is those connections. And so, I'll give a quick example, and I think I shared this to you before, but last year I had an opening for a position and I received a really nice little cover letter, email, and I read it and it was without a doubt AI generated. It was very machine sounding and impersonal and more than anything, it was just using language that didn't fit.
the building I'm in or anything and you know that's that was such a glaring example of you know don't just turn on the easy button it's like not hitting spell check at the end of a document you know it's maybe a great place to start but you got to make it your own and not turn it over to the machines if you will.
Trevor Goertzen (39:34.978)Yeah.
Trevor Goertzen (39:52.286)Yeah, I had someone say, we'll know it's authentic when there's spelling and grammar errors. Now you're gonna try to have some spelling and grammar errors because A, I won't let that happen unless you tell it to. You could tell your prompt to make this sound like it was written by a third grader.
Rick Sola (39:58.534)Yeah.
Trevor Goertzen (40:09.43)and it's going to, and that's what kids will do when they turn things in, so it's not looking like it's AI data, or so it beats the AI detectors. The last thing I will say is AI detections, don't spend your money on it. There's a lot of districts that don't wanna spend a lot of money on AI detection systems, they just don't work. And that's not because I work for an AI company, that's because they're consistently shown to be inconsistent, and if anything, they're shown to be...
very discriminatory towards non-English speakers because the pace in which a non-English speaker will type or write oftentimes triggers those AI detection systems. So whether it's a turn it in or something similar to that, the consistency of those working is not good. I actually don't even, the university that I work for uses it. I ignore it completely because I believe it's so inconsistent in how it operates.
Rick Sola (41:03.216)Yeah, interesting. No, I had not heard that, but that's that is interesting because I think that is.
Trevor Goertzen (41:07.054)Yeah, just dig into the research on AI detection software. That's what I'd encourage people to do, is dig into it before you invest in it.
Rick Sola (41:12.113)Yeah.
So I mean, I could go on and we could talk forever about AI. super, it's just really, I think of it as a new frontier, but as you project as much as you can, five to 10 years from now, what do you think AI is gonna look like in the mainstream classroom?
Trevor Goertzen (41:31.34)Yeah, I, man, I think what you're gonna see is you're gonna see a big divide in schools that adopt and schools that don't. And you're gonna see some even bigger discrepancies in student success because of that. Not to say that schools that use AI will be better off. I don't mean it in that way.
But because, I think one of the greatest struggles we have right now in education is staffing. Like we just don't have the staff to take care of the needs we have. And schools that utilize AI to fill those gaps, I think are gonna be better off. Now, if you're a school that can already take care of staffing and it's not an issue, I think you'll be just fine. But schools that can't handle that staffing gaps that utilize AI, I think you're gonna be able make sure those students are moving forward appropriately. I also think you're gonna see every student have their own
Tutor that every that Rick Sola and my own three kids that they're gonna have their own tutor that essentially works with them and follows them everywhere they go that it's embedded within their own just like they have their own logins for emails and for whatever they're gonna have their own assistance and they're gonna give it a name and they're gonna have Chad I go to Chad for help and assistance. I really believe that is what's gonna be kind of the next big wave for us
Rick Sola (42:50.94)That's interesting. And I think about iPads when those came on the scene and it's a personal device, an iDevice, and you customize it to yourself. And it's not a far reach to think that we will have those assistants that we customize to ourselves or whatever, or in the classroom. So like I said, I could go on and ask all sorts of questions. Trevor, where are we going to see you next? Are you going to be at any of our conferences around or?
Trevor Goertzen (42:54.295)Yeah.
Yeah.
Trevor Goertzen (43:16.718)You know, I was at KPA, oh it was a couple months ago, had the opportunity to be there. Hope to be at USA here in a few weeks. Always happy to come out and visit individual school districts in Kansas. Man, I'll be out in Holton next week, Topeka, just in Olathe. I was in Lewisburg a weeks ago, I'm sorry, Lewisburg, I in Peo'ola a couple weeks ago. If you're out there, I'd love to come out and help support, come out do some PD with you guys.
just help support the growth of appropriate and responsible AI use.
Rick Sola (43:49.318)Yeah, Trevor, I'll put your contact information in the show notes here if people have questions, want to reach out and so forth. I really appreciate your time today. Before we go, a lot of times I like to end the show by, you know, kind of a shout out, celebrate of our people. You were connected for six years with KPA and you're in the education world for so long. Any people out there you want to shout out or?
Trevor Goertzen (44:16.724)man, there's some good ones. And actually I'm gonna start with, he's not with us anymore, but Dwayne Dorshot. Dwayne was the executive director of KPA and he passed away unexpectedly. Man, it's probably almost been four years ago now, but he was a great friend and mentor along with Britton Hart and currently Carrie Leedy. But really a couple principles that have still been great friends.
People like Jackie Feist out in Dodge, just an incredible educator. Kristen Kraft there in the Andover area. Just folks that have always, whether it was principalship, whether it just personally, have always been great friends. Kelly Whitaker down in Ottawa has been such a great friend and resource. Brad Wilson and Rod Sprague. So lot of good folks that I have great fond memories of. Even good old Ron Berry. Man, he's a superintendent now, but we came in together and now he's a superintendent.
Same with mantle Greg Lear, he's a superintendent now too. So all these dudes, Nick Olson or Owens, these dudes that started out as principals and now they're superintendents. Just think very highly of lot of these men and women.
Rick Sola (45:24.528)Well, thank you for your contribution. like I started the top of this podcast with for your contribution to this podcast here, not just today, but in its beginning, if you will, back over the summer. you've been been a big help, but I really appreciate your time and you sharing this information. This is really good stuff. Super interesting, fascinating. We'll definitely look for you here in the upcoming conferences and stay warm.
Safe out there.
Trevor Goertzen (45:56.44)Thank you Rick, appreciate it.
Rick Sola (45:57.586)Alright, take care.

CC#30: The Interview Episode w/ Principal Panel of Whittaker, Cannon, Craft, and Wiley

In this episode, principals from Andover, Ottawa, Ellsworth, and Olathe, and a combined 57 years of administrative experience, discuss the interview process. Discussion spans from moment of first contact with a candidate all the way through the job offer and this panel shines light on the nuance of this process, their favorite interview questions, biggest interview turn-offs, and the method to their own "interview madness".
 
The Principal Panel
Contact Kelly Whittaker: whittakerk@usd290.org
X: @kelwhitt217
Contact John Cannon: jcannon@usd327.org
Connect on X: @BearcatPrin
Contact Leslianne Craft: craftl1@usd385.org
Connect on X: @leswatso
Mike Wiley: mwileyct@olatheschools.org
X: @KSUWiley
Rick Sola (host): rfsola@olatheschools.org
X: @MrRickSola
 
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The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
Read more about the KPA HERE.
Chapters (time stamps do not factor in the show's intro and will be about 30 second later than the noted time)
00:00 Introduction to the Interview Process03:06 The Pre-Interview Strategy05:56 Setting Up Interviews: New Approaches09:02 Creating a Comfortable Interview Environment11:58 Interview Dynamics: Questions and Icebreakers18:06 Favorite Interview Questions and Their Importance24:01 Identifying Red Flags in Interviews31:27 Navigating Interview Dynamics33:59 Involving Students in the Hiring Process36:25 The Urgency of Reference Checks39:48 Flexibility in Candidate Decision-Making44:12 The Importance of Principal Engagement51:55 Selling Your School to Candidates56:40 Closing Thoughts and Reflections
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THIS SHOW (generated by AI)
Rick Sola (00:01.699)Welcome to this special episode of Cool Coffee. I'm sitting here with an amazing panel of principals from across the state with many years of administrative experience, and we're going to talk about the interview process today. From the moment you make a decision to call a candidate in all the way through the recommendation, we're going to share our perspectives and methods to our own hiring madness. But first, let me introduce our panel. And panel, if you'll just respond with a hello and numbers of years and admin and then
Then we'll get started, but I am here with Mr. John Cannon, Ellsworth Jr. and Senior High from USD 327 and also the current KPA president. Hello, John.
John (00:42.701)Hello everybody. I've got 12 years of administrative experience.
Rick Sola (00:47.859)And we have Leslie Ann Kraft from Andover Central Middle School, USD 385, the former KPA president. Hello, Leslie Ann.
Leslianne Craft (00:57.773)Hello, I have, this is my 14th year of administration.
Rick Sola (01:03.299)And then I have Kelly Whitaker, Ottawa High School in USD 290. Hello, Kelly.
Kelly Whittaker (01:12.284)Hello, this is my 13th year as a high school administrator.
Rick Sola (01:18.011)And then Mr. Mike Wiley, California Trail Middle School, USD 233 in Olathe. Hello, Mike.
Mike Wiley (01:24.842)Hello, as Rick said, my name is Mike. I've been an administrator for 18 years. Started with two of those at high school and then back to my love of middle school for the rest.
Rick Sola (01:38.209)And then myself, 14 years in administration, nine of those as a principal. And I was going to keep a tally of how many years all that was to like have this grand announcement of so many years of administration interview experience and I wasn't keeping track of writing it down. But I know we have a lot of years between us and a lot of interview experience between all of us. So, you know, it's no exaggeration to say hiring is one of the most important things that we do. The impact that it can have on a building.
When it when you hit it's great and it can be so positive when you miss it can be Just a disaster sometimes if it's really bad And we've all probably we have enough years that we probably have seen it all on both sides of that so We're gonna start at the very beginning of the process 57 years John. Thank you. He wrote it all down. Thank goodness 57 years between all of us here. That's awesome
John (02:36.471)You
Rick Sola (02:37.595)So we're going to start at very beginning of process, at the very beginning of, you know, even before they are in the building. And that's kind of the goal of this episode is just to break down everything. you know, there's so many things that seem like very basic. Well, we want to bring someone in. Let's pick up the phone and call. I know there's a little bit of strategy that I have. know each of you have with even something as simple as that. So that's where we're going to start is at the very beginning of the process, the pre-interview, if you will.
And so John, I'll start with you. You have a position open. There's someone you want to bring in to interview, is it just you? Who do you involve in that process, and then how do you determine that?
Kelly Whittaker (03:16.835)you
John (03:22.007)Well, for me, typically, you know, I'm getting all of the applications from the district office. They've kind of already been gleaned and or or reviewed and then they're sent to me. For the most part, I'm the one who is reviewing the applications for my building. Every principal within our district does the same thing. And then from there, you know, I'm
you know this is my third year in this building but nine years previous I was just an elementary principal so I was by myself so I was that one man show but now with that you know often times I'll hand mine over to my assistant my assistant principal and he'll help me review and we'll kind of go through that but that's typically what we're looking at you know we're looking at the applications we're looking at experience we're looking at you know all the pertinent things experience
qualifications, their certification, you know, any type of reference that they have. We're kind of, we try to do all of that, which sometimes can be back-end work as a front-end work. So checking references and things like that. Because I think that ultimately saves us time. That's something we've had to really kind of change how we do things. Because as everyone knows, we're not getting as many applications for positions.
And so we've had to go, okay, if we're gonna call in a person for an interview and if we feel that we need to hire them, we need to ask them and be ready. So that way we already know who this person is and what kind of reference they have and things like that. So if we do feel that we need to offer that, then we do. Versus the old way where you're gonna do the interview and they're gonna trick references. That's typically how we had done things, but that's how we do things here.
Rick Sola (05:18.415)And I'm kind of looking at the panel, but do any of you frequently involve your teachers in the process or your leads or other non-administrative staff members? I see Mike kind of nodding or Kelly.
Kelly Whittaker (05:31.206)Yeah, absolutely. So I like what I heard John say. I think that the hiring process has changed dramatically over the last five years and we do a lot more of that front loading work and I will a lot of times ask my department chair maybe to reach out to maybe the middle school or the high school that this person might be coming from to talk to a couple colleagues as well as when I'm in that process of checking references. So we have all of that information.
and kind of already have a good feel as a team depending on how the interview goes, what direction we're going to land in. Because if we don't offer someone a job within minutes of them walking out the door, they may have five, six, seven other job offers, especially if it's a math teacher, a science teacher, a social studies teacher, a special education teacher, just some of those really hard to fill the areas.
Rick Sola (06:17.133)So, Lesley Ann, you know, I mentioned at the top that, you know, something as mundane as just setting up an interview, could be an email, could be a call, could be from you, whatever. Is there an intentionality, like how do you set up your interviews? Do you make those calls? Does your assistant make the calls? How does that look?
Leslianne Craft (06:35.154)It has transformed quite a bit in the last two years, actually. I have started to text the candidates and I get a very quick response. I don't know why I started doing that other than I was kind of a little frustrated, I guess, with calling and
leaving voicemails and not getting return and, and or having my secretary schedule in which, mean, that's a great, she's, she's a great resource to do that. But, they have a lot going on too in the main office. And so, trying to get that done can sometimes be a little grueling. So I, I just have started texting my candidates and it is amazing. They are a little bit more.
free to and get back with me sooner and They asked me questions so they can get a feel for what I'm looking for They might have salary questions and I can guide them to the website to look at our salary schedule So there's a lot of talking back and forth via text that me and a candidate will do up front and it's been it's been great Yeah, it's a good shift
John (07:38.958)Huh.
Rick Sola (07:54.425)Yeah, that's interesting. I have not ever texted, you know, to set up an initial communication. But you're right, because I think about some of the most frustrating times is when I've either left a voicemail or worse, the voicemail box is full, which grinds my gears a little bit. texting is probably a great way to reach, especially the younger teachers or
John (08:09.049)Right?
Leslianne Craft (08:10.048)Yep.
Rick Sola (08:23.565)you know, it's just the way we communicate now. So yeah, interesting. Very good. Was somebody, go ahead.
John (08:28.196)What do you, I'm sorry to ask, what do you ask them? Do you just say, hey, I'd like to have an interview with you and is that just the normal kind of thing or?
Kelly Whittaker (08:34.728)Thank
Leslianne Craft (08:35.02)This is Leslie Ann Kraft from Andover Central Middle School. I see that you're interested in our eighth grade ELA position. Would you be willing to come in for an interview? And then I give them a specific time and day or date or time range on a specific date. And they get, even if they have a job already or they are not interested anymore, they get back with me even on that so quickly.
Kelly Whittaker (09:02.664)So it's interesting, it sounds like just the same thing you would say on the phone, you just start it with a text. Okay. Because I usually call and then I give them my cell phone number and tell them if you have any questions between now and then, do not hesitate to text me and a lot of them will and I'll end up answering some questions or getting them information but I never thought about that.
John (09:06.571)Exactly. Yeah.
Leslianne Craft (09:07.734)Yep, it's awesome.
Leslianne Craft (09:21.565)I almost didn't do it because it's for me because I'm, I don't want to call it old school, but I guess maybe I am becoming more old school. It's not very personable, you know, not so I almost didn't start doing it, but I was like, you know, what do I have to lose? And it's been great.
Rick Sola (09:37.913)Well, but you're right, though. I mean, that's that's the way people communicate and they're going to get that. And even if it's a call and a voicemail, then you follow up with the text like, hey, I left you a voicemail. I see you're interested and even, you know, hybrid. But you said old school. And that's what I think in my mind is like, it doesn't seem professional or, you know, that sort of thing. But that's how we got to reach our you know, we're two questions in and already a theme has come up, the word change and just a change in the process and that sort of thing. And
Leslianne Craft (09:53.983)Yes.
Rick Sola (10:06.703)that's huge. Kelly, screening processes, do you set up a screening process or a screening interview? Maybe a quick 10, 15 minutes or is that district led? Talk about the screening process.
Kelly Whittaker (10:18.994)So yeah, we don't do that here at USD 290. We're a larger 4A school and kind of like John had talked about, we are responsible for all the hiring in our building, so we've got to monitor the applications that are coming in through Skyward and then it's our job to process through those, determine who we're going to call and schedule interviews with. More of my processing is really the screening is just doing all those reference checks ahead of time, getting my department leads to maybe call that school and reach out to a math teacher email, whatever that looks like.
So we get all that information together. I have been in a larger district where we did have a screening interview where one of the assistant principals would do a screening interview with candidates. They would have to have a certain score on that in order to get to the next round. And honestly, I was thinking about that the other day leading up to this. If we had to do that right now in 2025, I don't think I would ever have a candidate because I don't know that we could move quick enough with four other people's job offers coming down the pike.
So we don't do anything like that. It's really just me getting a feel for them like Leslie Ann said, calling, texting with them, getting the interview set up, and then really getting them in here and figuring out if they're gonna be a good fit for our students.
Rick Sola (11:28.985)That actually leads kind of nicely into the next question, Mike, is, you know, there's so many like little nuances that you can pick up. I mean, we're trying to evaluate a person and if they're going to be a fit with kids, with our colleagues, with parents, and even just a text exchange, you probably get a decent sense, at least in some communication. Let's say we get the candidate in. Mike, I know you've got some intentional maneuvers. That sounds kind of, I don't know what, but like some things that you do.
Mike Wiley (11:55.775)you
John (11:56.117)Hahaha
Rick Sola (11:58.535)that are kind of intentional when they do arrive to your building. But talk about that, kind of the before they're in your office sitting down, what do you do?
Mike Wiley (12:08.478)So sure, I appreciate that. I value my admin assistants perspective a great deal. And they're the face of our building. They're doing so much for us. I will.
know, most of our candidates are showing up five, 10 minutes early. Even if they show up on time, I want them to have some time in that front office where my receptionist can have a little bit of a conversation with them, get that feel. Do they want to enter into that conversation? Are they treating those folks as an equal? Are they into their phone and not paying attention as it's a passing period?
or not looking at kids. And if there are kids come into the office, are they interacting with those students and those kind of things? I give our office staff just a sheet of paper with the person. If we're having multiple interviews, I've got all the people's names on the left side. I'm asking them, what do you like about this person? What were they doing while kids were in the office? And some of those kind of things. Because number one, they
They like getting to know new people and it's a great opportunity for folks to be a little bit more laid back with someone and I get a perspective from them that maybe the folks that are in the interview asking specific questions about instruction and those kind of things are not seeing that perspective. So that's another piece to help determine between candidate A and candidate B.
for us.
Rick Sola (13:55.183)You know, we tell people, know, especially those who I've mentored, looking, seeking administration, you know, I always say, you're always interviewing, you know, especially if you're in the district you're interviewing for, you know, built your reputation based on how you carry yourself from day to day, but it's also a good reminder for candidates, you're always interviewing, you walk in the building, you're on, you know, and so there is so much there. So Mike, I'm gonna continue with you, but.
You know, kind of from that moment and kind of an initial icebreaker. I've heard different schools of thought. I know and I've been in different interviews where you walk in and it almost feels intentionally very business, almost stuffy to those who really want to go out of their way to make it casual, comfortable. And I don't, you know, I think it's a personal preference in what you're wanting to achieve here. But Mike, talk about
what you try to achieve is like maybe an initial icebreaker, kind of your launch into the interview.
Mike Wiley (14:58.014)So I'll come up to the front office and grab a candidate and welcome back, introduce myself, those kind of things. As I'm walking into the room, I'll do something to make a joke with one of the other folks on the interview panel or make a joke about something that was going on in the office as we're going in. But I really want to set that tone that, hey, this is a building that we like to have fun.
We know each other as people. We know each other as colleagues as well, but that personal connection and being able to laugh and be yourself is real important to us. And I want that feel for our candidates because I want them to relax, right? I talk to them about, as we go through this interview, we're going to bounce questions around, but I really want, if it brings up a question in your mind, don't wait till the end.
you know, ask that question now. We're a laid back group. We work in middle school. We're a little quirky. We're a little odd, you know, or we wouldn't be in a middle school. And so that just sets the tone as to, hey, relax, be yourself. I always have a bottle of water for them, you know, and I even maybe make the joke of, hey, if we ever give you a really tough question, don't be afraid. Take that bottle of water. Take a little drink. You know, buy yourself some time.
John (15:56.217)you
John (16:02.721)Ha ha.
Mike Wiley (16:25.67)Ask us to repeat, you know, all those things are totally fine. And, you know, with that, I'm also wanting to portray, hey, we're here to coach you. We want the best out of you. It doesn't have to be the perfect answer that we're looking for. We want to know, you know, that you're, know you a little bit more as well. So try to set that.
John (16:27.597)Yep.
Rick Sola (16:48.963)So whether you're in line with what Mike does or even a little different, that either of you, any of the rest of you would add that you intentionally do kind of between the walk from the chair to the interview office, whatever.
John (17:06.829)Sometimes it depends upon the time. Like if we have back to back interviews, then, you know, I do pretty much the same thing as Mike. I try to make the environment light, offer them water, really explain to them, you know, when they sit down at the table, this is just us getting to know you and seeing if it's a good fit for you and for us. But if I have time, typically what I do is I'll take them on a tour of the campus. And if I, you know,
I sometimes I do that before, sometimes I do it after, but that's something, a wrinkle that I generally do because, you know, being a bigger campus or the biggest campus in our district, I at want them to see. And I always generally try to show them the room or at least referencing the room that they'll be in so they have like a context of going, okay, I know I'm going to be in this really long, super long hall. So that's, again, very much very, very, very similar to what Mike does.
Rick Sola (18:06.319)So Kelly, as far as questioning goes, assuming you're in there with at least one other person, maybe more, how strategic are you with the questions that you get to ask versus the person that's in there with you? Is it important to you that your teacher asks a certain question or do you just kind of every other and just kind of go around the horn?
Kelly Whittaker (18:28.624)Yeah, I tend to do more just around Robin style. Typically at the end, like I try to ask like the last question we always ask people, why should we hire you? You know, just to me, that's important. Just kind of that culminating. Why is it that we should bring you here to Ottawa High School? We do a similar to Mike, try to make it as conversational as possible and is not not stuffy. And we want the person to feel comfortable so we can see their best self. And I stress to my interview committee, probably more now than I ever have, that we are selling ourselves to this person.
just as much as they're trying to sell themselves to us. And I overemphasize that with teachers before the interview starts. But we tend to just kind of go around Ron Robbins style and there's no rhyme or reason to who's asking what question. And I don't know, we've always found that we get good information from candidates and can make good choices.
Rick Sola (19:17.563)So that leads into, and I'm really interested in this, because I'm hoping to steal some questions, but favorite interview question and why. I'm sure we all have probably multiple that we make sure are part of our list of questions. But Leslie Ann, starting with you, do you have a favorite interview question and why is it your favorite?
Leslianne Craft (19:41.554)I have a few, but the one that I want to touch on here is what support do you need, what support do you want or need from your principal or administration and how much, and what can we expect of them regarding what they expect of us. I just.
I love all the other, like, what are your strengths and that, but I really like that back and forth, like, what support do they need from us? And then again, being able to ask what support we're going to need from them really goes into the expectations for both the school, for them as a teacher and then for us as the leaders.
Rick Sola (20:29.935)John, do you have a favorite interview question?
John (20:32.407)Yeah, I do. It's usually my final question and it's really, really hard. And I do that because I want to see, I don't put a lot of weight to it, but for me, I want them to think critically. And I always ask, why should I hire you over the other candidates who share the same, no, no, no, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, that was the wrong one. As you leave this interview, tell us in a sentence or less how we can remember you.
And so really that's, it's more of a, I want to see what they say. It really has no value. And I've tell that to the rest of the interview panel is it really has no value. I just want to see what they say about themselves. And I think that, cause that really kind of tells you who that person is on the spot. And I really, I do preface kind of what Mike had said is take some time, think about this. This is a hard one because you're really thinking about yourself because you've been talking about your practice and your leadership and all these other things.
but what about you? What do you say about you? And how can we remember you? And it's been, I've got really entertaining answers to like, I don't know what to say. So it really, again, and I know if you really wanna have focus, and we have focus questions throughout the rest of the interview, that one's more like that weird HR question. But I really wanna just see why. Who do they think they are?
Rick Sola (21:46.107)You
John (22:02.297)And then why should we remember you?
Rick Sola (22:05.007)Yeah, I'm picturing the deer in the headlight look and I'm thinking at least it's the last question. You can wrap it up and, because when it's like the second question and you're like, boy, this might be a long one. Kelly, is there one that you make sure is on your list?
John (22:08.301)Yeah.
Kelly Whittaker (22:20.56)Yeah, I like to kind John. guess this is a hard question too, but we pride ourselves and being innovative and we have a lot of CTE programs with in our building and we really want to see a lot of cross curricular activities. So we like to ask teachers or teaching candidates. What does it mean to be a 21st century teacher and how are the needs of students different than when you were in school? And we really like that question because we want to.
It gives them an opportunity to tell us how they might be creative and a little innovative within their classroom space and really gives us an idea to like, are they in tune to what a learner in 2024 needs versus a learner that needed, what learners needed in 2010. So we get some really cool answers. A lot of people stop and pause and they'll ask us to repeat it or they'll ask for a minute to really think about it. But that's one of our favorite questions that we ask that's probably a little bit different and outside the box from.
your typical normal interview questions.
Rick Sola (23:18.649)Yeah, Mr. Wiley.
Mike Wiley (23:20.798)gosh, I'm sitting here writing down things. I love these. Mine are pretty boring probably. You know, I always, I wrap up with a couple of them at the end again.
Kind of a play on the strengths and weaknesses I talk about. We all have those. I want to hear something that you're average at currently that you want to be a strength in two to three years. And again, it's not the strength, it's not the weakness. I want to hear something that you're okay at. They think a little bit, they tell me what it is, and then I ask them, what have you done in the last six months to improve in that area? I want to hear the reflective.
I want to hear that they're being proactive and trying to get better with that as well. I don't really care what the content is, what it is that they feel like they want to improve on. I want to hear whether they can pick that out in themselves and then are they actively seeking improvement in that area. The other one is that I typically always end with is
Why do you feel a position at California Trail is the best fit for you? And I want to hear about my building. We put out a ton of things like you guys all do. I know on Twitter and Facebook and some of those kind of things. And we're putting out the things that we're proud of. There's all kinds of information about all of our buildings online. I want to hear that they know a little bit about our building as opposed to...
John (24:36.046)Yeah.
Rick Sola (24:53.083)Thanks
Mike Wiley (24:58.353)Rick's building or John's building or those kind of things so that they've they've done a little bit of homework
Rick Sola (25:04.569)Yeah, that's always a good sign when they speak specifically to your building. And Mike, we're in a district that spreads, know, in Olathe, it's a bigger area. know, when I hear, you know, you're just so close to my house. You know, that's not really the number one reason I'm looking to hire people. And I hear that sometimes. And it's amazing sometimes what candidates do to hurt themselves. But, you know, I'll just add a question. This is not
It's the most basic, almost like HR question, but I think the typical question is like three words to describe yourself. I've always asked five. And it's funny because I usually get a reaction like, my gosh, five. I get so many. And the answer is really, I'm looking for answers, but one of reasons I ask it is I always write those down to follow up with references. And I always say, this candidate described themselves with these words. Would you agree with that?
John (25:55.257)Mm-hmm.
Rick Sola (25:59.323)But I'll always ask Candid to expand on at least one of those, you know, but it's interesting more on the reference side of are they accurately describing themselves and, you know, kind of to that reflection piece that Mike mentioned. Another thing, and I'm curious if any of you use scenarios, put a, personally I'll put a, usually at least one, maybe two scenario questions in an interview. Is that something that you include in your process?
And if so, how effective do you think it is and what does that look like?
Kelly Whittaker (26:35.024)I tend to do that more for my assistant principals when I'm interviewing like assistant principals or instructional coaches. For my teaching candidates, I have not necessarily put that as part of the repertoire of the interviewing. But I do for some of those other more like counselors, instructional coaches, assistant principals, where I just need to kind of get a feel for how they might handle certain situations where they got to prioritize time or, you know, they've got 19 things on their to-do list, but we have four crises that pop up kind of what
John (26:40.857)Mm-hmm.
Kelly Whittaker (27:03.656)How are they going to react and respond?
Mike Wiley (27:06.388)That's really good, Kelly. The same thing. I do it more for the more unique roles. Like if you're going to work in our office, I always ask, hey, OK, it's 2.45. School gets out at 3.20. You're, for some reason, you're the only one up front. Of course, the phone's ringing with the parent wanting to ask a question or get in touch with someone. You've got a custodian.
needed up in the office because maintenance is here to fix something. You've got a an attendance report that an assistant principal needs and you've got a student that forgot their locker combination. That never happens in middle school, but that forgot their locker combination. Now what and I put him on note cards and I slide the cards in front of him and say what do you handle when or how do you? How do you handle these things? And I don't care what order they do it.
Kelly Whittaker (27:48.882)Yeah
Mike Wiley (28:02.59)I want to hear customer service, right? And I am interested in, I hope they put the administrator to the last, right? And they take care of the people in front of them. But that scenario has been a real telling one for Office Staff.
Rick Sola (28:18.297)You know, one thing I have done kind of to Kelly's point with maybe my counselors or admin candidates is I'll give them a writing sample. We'll finish the interview. We'll walk out and I'll have a laptop set up and, you know, and basically give the scenario of I'd like to share you as a new hire with our community. Please write a little blurb about yourself and introduce yourself to the community. And it's amazing how that can be a little bit of a separation. People can talk and present differently.
And then especially if it's a job with a lot of writing, you you get a different type of sense or even, you know, office staff where I might have them make a flyer and I'll say, hey, we have fifth graders coming up. Can you put a flyer together just on the spot? That's part of the interview. And depending on what I need or looking for, that could be kind of a separator. So I'm going to transition here to when the interview is not going well versus when the interview is going well.
Kelly Whittaker (29:00.956)Yeah.
Rick Sola (29:17.336)But I'll start, Kelly, with you, the biggest interview turnoffs for you.
Kelly Whittaker (29:24.466)think you named one earlier, kind of when the first question we always ask is tell us a little bit about yourself and more importantly, why do you want to be a math teacher at Ottawa High School or whatever that is. And really we're looking for why do you want to be at Ottawa High School. And when you tell me that it's a less of a lesser commute from your house or maybe in that answer you dog your other school district or the building you were in and I'm looking for, you know, a place that's more friendly or whatever that looks like. I think it's just.
John (29:42.745)Thank
Kelly Whittaker (29:53.016)It's really important for candidates to be careful how they answer that question because they want to be obviously honest about whatever their journey is but being professional and if you don't know anything about our school at all like you haven't even looked up the bell schedule we have a lot of really unique aspects about Ottawa High School so if you go to our website you're going to come figure out a few things about us pretty quickly and we can always tell when candidates haven't even put two
two ounces of time into learning about our space. So I think that turns us off the most, because partly because we're prideful and we're proud about what we do for kids and we want to have other people get on our team that are ready to do those things for our students.
Rick Sola (30:31.491)Yeah. Leslieann, how about you?
Leslianne Craft (30:33.463)I would agree with what Kelly said. I just really feel like they need to have some good working knowledge of why they want to work in our building. And like she said, there's a lot of ways these days to find out information about every building. so if they seem disinterested or just have canned responses.
It's a big turn off. Most of the time we have several interviews going on and when you have canned answers, it's just, it's a turn off. The attention wanders. We want to have good inspired answers.
Rick Sola (31:21.531)Does your team know your tells when you're sitting there in the interview? Like, okay.
Leslianne Craft (31:26.396)my. You're asking the wrong person because I don't fix my face. You all have been around me. Yeah, I try to fix my face. But they can tell. mean, just yeah, my tone or my tone or I don't make a lot of eye contact.
John (31:27.577)you
Kelly Whittaker (31:47.484)Sometimes when it gets to my turn, I'll skip a couple questions and we'll end up on question 10 and people in the room are like, okay. You know, like they just are. I'm just feeling like we don't need to probably ask too many more questions. I don't like to be, I had a boss one time that was a, he did the pencil drop trick and if he dropped his pen, like we were done and he was gonna wrap things up and be gone. And I don't know, to me, I also don't want a candidate to walk out of an interview with us and never say anything negative about the experience that they had.
John (32:00.355)Yeah.
Kelly Whittaker (32:17.532)So I at least will just, to me if we skip some questions, they have no idea that we're skipping questions. And then we can give them maybe a shorter tour at the end or whatever we have involved. But I don't want to be disrespectful to anybody either. But I think that unfortunately sometimes you're in an interview and you're like, okay, this is not going to work out at all for whatever reason.
John (32:22.489)Right.
Rick Sola (32:38.393)Well, and the reality is too, a lot of times you're on a really big time crunch and you might have multiple candidates and I'm sure we've all had the candidate yes, you know, tell me a little bit about yourself. And then 25 minutes later, you know, you haven't even gotten to the next question. You've got to wrap it up and you know, you kind of learned all you needed to learn there. Mike, how about you?
Mike Wiley (33:00.414)So you just mentioned exactly what I say. I try to prep them as much as I can that, we've got 45 minutes block for the interview, maybe a 15 minute tour at the front end or back end. But when their first couple answers end up going 10 minutes apiece, it's like, and I will tell them that we have a dozen questions or we'll have 10 to 12 questions, those kind of things. Definitely have skipped questions like Kelly.
Leslianne Craft (33:13.971)you
Mike Wiley (33:29.952)alluded to and those kind of things. So that's pretty similar.
Rick Sola (33:33.733)So I'm to jump ahead a little bit. Some of this we've gotten to as far as including building tours or not. How common is it that you have a second or third interview process? Or maybe and or do you ever include a lesson? Do you ever have a candidate come in and, hey, we're going to teach a lesson for a class if they're far down the line?
Kelly Whittaker (33:59.496)So we don't do second or third interviews typically, but one unique thing we do that any of my co-curricular activity teachers like choir band, maybe if I'm hiring a football coach or I'm hiring a teacher who might be my debate coach as well, we try to include our students. So sometimes I've had my students organized where we've come up with like four, help them develop like three or four questions that they're gonna ask.
each candidate, like we did that for my ag teacher one time. So they got an opportunity to be with that teacher and they got to ask some student friendly questions and get a little insight and get some feedback from them. I try to always have a students do the tour. I think that they just have a lot of insight that they can give me at the end of that tour about, did the candidate talk to them? Did they talk to them only about things that are happening on television and didn't even ask them questions about the high school?
I've had band and choir teachers do some conducting of the kids just because that is always a piece that students want to know how does that band teacher going to conduct our class. And so I have done that before, but I try to involve students a lot. And that is something that has really involved over the last three years. And I get a lot of really positive feedback from candidates and they're like, wow, I've never had students interview me and ask me questions or intentionally take me around the building.
Leslianne Craft (35:12.089).
Kelly Whittaker (35:22.638)And also I think that's a way for us to sell ourselves, right? Let's put our best students in front of them so they can see what they're gonna be interacting with every day as well.
John (35:30.073)you
Rick Sola (35:31.001)Yeah, that's excellent. You know, I was thinking too about that tour. Every so often we'll be walking around and a candidate will see like a piece of trash on the floor and they'll pick it up and throw it away. I'm like, that's a good thing. I like seeing that. And it's, you know, it seems very genuine or second nature and it's, is the little thing. Sometimes that could be a separation. Let's move to you like the candidate. You want to make a recommendation.
Leslianne Craft (35:39.099)Yeah.
John (35:43.225)you
Rick Sola (35:56.323)And this actually came up at the beginning and this goes back to maybe the changing climate. Like we got to act on it. There's urgency. We know they've got four interviews that week or whatever. With the reference checks being so critical, when do those occur? And John, I'll start with you, but when do those occur? Are you looking to make a recommendation like on the spot or is it going to be, hey, thank you. We'll be in touch. And then, and then you try to get on with references right away.
John (36:25.753)It really depends upon the situation and it depends upon the position. if it's, I'm just going to say this. we're in North Central Kansas. For most of you, that's Western Kansas. But we're not, we're in the middle of the state. There's a whole lot of state to the West, but needless to say, we're a small school. And so the number of candidates that we get has significantly dropped. If we, let's say, banned,
Mike Wiley (36:38.176)you
John (36:53.909)If we have three candidates, we're actually feeling like, okay, we've got choice. Whereas like trying to find a biology teacher or a chemistry teacher, the thought of a second interview is ridiculous. There is no second. For people in small schools and ours, we have to move because perfect example, like last year, my band teacher, he had four other offers, four.
And I have never pitched our school as hard as I possibly could to get him, you know, because it is a buyer's market. It is not. It is completely changed, and I have to say that. So for all of our small school principals, I feel ya, there is no idea. For us, it depends upon that. So like, for instance, when we have our team, usually it's myself, my assistant principal,
my CTE coordinator, a counselor, one of our counselors, and then probably both, or if it's like an ELA position, both or all three of our ELA positions, or two of them. And that's the panel. So it's a pretty big panel, but I try to front load them in saying, all right, if we look at this, I need to have feedback immediately, because if they're walking out the door, or if people give me body language like,
get this guy or get this person. It'll be walking out the door and I walk with them to their car and saying, hey, we really feel that you're gonna be a good fit for us. We'd like you to join our team. But it depends. But if we also have a point where it's just been an okay interview, then we do the normal. Hey, we'll give you a call. You'll be hearing from us in the next week or how many ever days and we'll let you know. And so it just depends. So for us,
The urgency is completely different. When I started 12 years ago, I had 28 applications for a music teacher at the elementary level. And now, before I left, I hired one and I had two. And so that was just a nine year difference. So it really comes back down to the reality. I know for all of you, except me, you all live in a metropolitan area or have access to a metropolitan area.
John (39:18.681)And so that's you guys, I had to say it is you probably feel a little bit of what I'm dealing with, but it's critical. And if we want to really learn something, and I'm to bird walk real fast, if we really want to learn something from hiring process, we need to learn from our friends in the western, in the west side of the state, because they got their poop in a group. They understand what they're doing and they have made incentives and they have done an excellent job getting people. And I even know they still have a hard time. So.
Kelly Whittaker (39:47.237)and
John (39:48.471)I think the thing for me in this question, Rick, is it comes back down to urgency and the number of candidates. That's really what it comes back down to. But we try to front load everything. I try to say this is a candidate that we have got really good reference on. If we feel that as a team, as a hiring panel, that they are going to work, then I really take the recommendation and I go forward with that.
Rick Sola (40:00.453)Yeah.
Rick Sola (40:15.419)Lesi Ann, going to you as far as references go, is that a personal phone call from you or is it an email form that gets filled out, both? Are you required to get some things in?
Leslianne Craft (40:26.899)Yeah, so the expectation from the district is that we are required to document two reference checks and I make phone call on those. And if I can't get a hold of the reference, I will send an email but ask them to in the email to call me. So I always like to do it over the phone. And again, you you have to move move with the sense of urgency to make sure that you.
get it documented and can offer that candidate. I try to do as much front loading as possible like they talked about prior to is just kind of looking at references, having folks that know people in that building, ask some questions. So try to do a little bit of front loading there.
Mike Wiley (41:13.03)I'm going to jump in real quick, Rick. This is where Leslie Ann talked about if I'm not contacting someone very quickly or even when I start to make those phone calls, I will text the candidate and say, hey, I'm getting ready to do reference checks.
Would you, do you mind reaching out, texting your references and letting them know, hey, you're going to be getting a call. And that's been good in both getting the response quick, but it also lets the candidate know, hey, I'm very interested. You know, I know the references need to come through, but I'm interested and I'm working towards moving you. And it kind of gives them that sense of, know, hey, this is a good thing. And I've received good feedback from them on that.
John (41:34.871)Mmm.
Leslianne Craft (41:36.305)Mm.
Kelly Whittaker (41:39.602)good.
John (41:40.396)Yeah.
Kelly Whittaker (41:59.464)school.
John (42:00.121)To make sure I heard you clearly, Mike, you said you text the candidate, hey, talk to your references to contact me.
Mike Wiley (42:05.612)No, I say, hey, let your references know that I'm going to be calling so it doesn't go straight to voicemail or, you know, they at least anticipate, hey, I'm going to get this today. So it just gives them a heads up and lets the candidate know that they're very much in the process still.
John (42:10.905)Perfect.
Rick Sola (42:23.823)Now that's a really good, cause that's over the years probably some of the most frustration, biggest frustrating parts of it and kind of to Leslie Anne's point is, we are required to have so many references and when you're waiting on that, it can stall the process. You lose out on that candidate, but then you've also lost out on the other, the second and third choice. So I was going to ask each of you, what's your timeframe? Candidate wants to think about it. How long you going to wait?
Kelly Whittaker (42:40.7)Yes.
Kelly Whittaker (42:49.146)I will tell you Rick, I love that question because that is something that has changed as well. And look, like I can't get mad at you if you need a couple days. If you need two or three days anymore, like I'd love for you to tell me before I get off the phone with you, but if you tell me, hey Mrs. Whitaker, I'd love to take your auto job, but I need a couple days to think about it. I'm like, great, can we follow up on Friday? Or like I'll figure out a timeframe and I'll say, I'll reach back out to you because I need to reach back out to them and know.
And I also say that because unfortunately, this is like when I've been hiring a Spanish teacher, a chemistry teacher, an industrial tech teacher, an auto teacher, and I only have that candidate, right? Maybe I have one other candidate, but I'm willing to wait because they probably have three other interviews and they want to see what those other schools have to offer. So I'm more flexible in that. I don't even think that I can have a hardcore mindset on that. The other thing that I've been telling principals that I've been mentoring through Kelly Institute and some other organizations is
I feel like now more than ever the hiring process is so important and I am very hands-on in the hiring process because I keep getting told by my teachers that I've hired and other teaching candidates when I talk with them that they're taking jobs because of the principal, right? Because they want to work for you and then they want to be a part of that culture and climate in your building. So just as much as they want their colleagues to be amazing humans, they're also wanting to know are you the type of boss that I want to work for?
John (43:46.713)you
Leslianne Craft (44:00.045)Thank
Kelly Whittaker (44:12.848)and I am very hands-on and probably a little bit more intense about it than maybe some think I need to be. But I also know that I have filled some very, very hard to fill positions with some amazing teachers because I've taken those extra moments to go above and beyond. And they've said like, wow, like you followed up with me within two hours of my text message or you did this and this other principal, I couldn't get them to get a hold of me for a day to answer my questions. And so I just share that because I do think
Leslianne Craft (44:25.841)Okay.
Kelly Whittaker (44:42.072)our responsibility as instructional leaders in the interviewing process. It's intense. And we have got to be on top of our A game when we're out there looking to fill our spots with high quality people for our students. So I am very intense with the hiring process and very hands on.
Rick Sola (44:57.743)You know, and I totally agree with that. You know, give them the time they need. And at the same time, internally, it's so stressful hiring because that urgency, I want to move. I don't let the grass grow very long on a position that's open. I want to get going. But then it's like, sure, you can take another day to think about it. You know, and if you really want that person, you think there can't, or you don't have a large pool or any pool or whatever the case may be.
Leslianne Craft (45:06.478)Okay.
Rick Sola (45:27.683)No, absolutely.
Kelly Whittaker (45:28.04)Do you guys find yourselves? I always think when that happens and I text my boss and he's like, it's okay, they're gonna take the job. I find myself over the last three years, the excitement that I get when someone tells me yes. Do you all feel that? I get so excited, I'll fist bump in my office and I am like, yes, we got that filled finally. But I don't remember feeling that way 13 years ago all the time, right? But I feel that way more now than I probably ever have.
John (45:40.141)Yes.
Leslianne Craft (45:40.362)Yes. Yes.
Mike Wiley (45:41.877)Yes.
Kelly Whittaker (45:56.964)and being a leader. And so I think that's important for us all to reflect on with other leaders as we're all just the hiring process has changed dramatically. And I think that I've very much enjoyed this hearing your guys's pros and cons and how you handle the process because we need to learn from each other and we need to steal each other's tips and tricks to try to get the best teachers for our students.
Leslianne Craft (46:06.82)Okay.
Leslianne Craft (46:16.589)Yeah.
Rick Sola (46:21.049)Well, and I had a note, I meant to mention this earlier, probably this comment will fit better in the previous earlier in the conversation, but kind of that that biggest turn off when candidates will say something that's just you can it's just kind of a backhand something toward their previous employer. I don't think people realize how small the education community is and how how often we have each other's candidates or we have each other's colleagues and
I don't want to hear how you think negatively about, know, make it positive and so forth. And kind of to that point, if we learn from each other, you we can be a part of that growth from each other. But candidates need to realize like, look, we are kind of colleagues together in all of this and we may pick up the phone. I may have somebody from Andover move into Kansas City and I need to make a call and like, you know, I want somebody in the building that I think is going to be a champion of the building.
John (47:19.737)Thank
Rick Sola (47:19.865)what better way for me to know that than if you're champion in the building you're coming from.
Leslianne Craft (47:23.328)Yep.
John (47:23.587)That's a turn off for me. mean, I know I didn't answer that question, but that's one of those things is if you start talking negatively and you perseverate on your situation, yeah, you're searching for something that's gonna be better and you feel that you're gonna be a good fit for this position, but if you come back in your answers as an interviewee or as a candidate, that you keep going back to the negative things of...
of your previous or your current position or the administration or whatever, you're exactly right Rick. And that's like, to me is like, I don't, if you're wanting to change, that's fine. You have that right and that's what everyone, everyone goes through that and does that. But if you're so focused on that, I think it's like when you start to make, and this is just my idea, if you start to think that you're going to look for a different job because of your situation, whether it's hostile or it's just not a good fit or whatever it is,
In my mindset, you can't perseperate on that past because you're trying to move forward. And if you don't and we rehire you, you're gonna bring that same negativity to here. And I think you look for it. And that's not necessarily, that's a really broad swath sweep, but I look at that because I've been bit by that. And so I've had people who've come in and they've just, and so they're just looking for the negative, they're looking for the bad. And I'd rather have those people who are like,
I need a new start or I need to freshen up on whatever I need. I need something new and that's okay. But back to the urgency thing for me real fast and I'm sorry. What I found is and specifically for us in our position again is with our younger kids, our kids that are coming right out of school, at least for me, is they come in and the first question they ask is,
what am I gonna be able to do in Ellsworth, all right? We're isolated, we're in the beautiful Smokey Hills, we're 35 minutes away from Ellsworth, we're just a short drive, about three hours from Kansas City, so we're able to get there, but their question is what am gonna do as a person here, and that's really hard, and in fact, I lost three candidates that way because they're like, I just wanna be closer to...
John (49:42.275)They won't say but civilization, their friends and bigger places. And that's really hard because what happens is they generally try, they milk me along because I'm calling and say, hey, I'm giving them that freedom to say, I need time, I need time. Okay, that's fine. And finally it just gets to the point where I'm like, okay, you've got to give me an answer. And it's okay if you say no, I just need to know so that I can move on with the hiring process.
Rick Sola (50:02.17)Yeah.
Rick Sola (50:07.279)Yeah. Mike, it looks like you were loading up to say something.
John (50:10.009)you
Mike Wiley (50:10.962)No, I'm loving all this. I 100 % agree. The idea of giving a candidate some time, I verbalize, hey, you know, I want you to go and I want you to talk about it. If it's someone young, I want you to talk about it with your parents. I want you to talk about it with your significant other, your spouse, whatever it may be, because we're not just hiring you, we're hiring your family. we...
John (50:30.873)Absolutely.
Kelly Whittaker (50:35.784)Mm-hmm. A point.
Mike Wiley (50:36.614)We I want that to be a priority for you and I want them to know that that that's something that I value as well, right? You know, if I got hit by a bus today, my job would be would be advertised tomorrow, right? So I better be doing the doing the things at home to keep those relationships good. I want my candidates doing the same thing. Want them to come in and work their tail off while they're in our building. But.
John (51:05.049)you
Mike Wiley (51:06.144)I want them to have that time to make sure it's the right fit as well. I say all that, but I say, can you do it quickly? that we can do that. give them that balance of, yes, I want you to do that. But I also want to work with you to say, what is the timeline going to be to do that?
Rick Sola (51:10.043).
Leslianne Craft (51:14.488)Yeah.
John (51:14.619)Hahaha
Kelly Whittaker (51:15.504)No.
Rick Sola (51:15.579)Yeah.
Rick Sola (51:26.683)And that's the real, that's the reality too. It's not personal if you don't want to come here. I say the same thing if you need to leave and you have a fresh start somewhere. It's not personal. Please in my head, I'm thinking, please be quick about this so we can, we gotta, we gotta move on. So just the very last bit here and just in the interest of time and maybe, you know, try to condense this to maybe a 30 second blurb, but candidates will oftentimes finish with their question of why, why should I want to work in your building?
or work for you or whatever, in a sentence or less, to use John's words earlier, how do you answer that question? And I'll let each of you go, and I'm just gonna go in the order of the screen I'm looking at. So Leslie Ann, you're at the top left of my screen. How do you answer that?
Leslianne Craft (52:09.977)Nice. I talk about the positive culture in my school there because I don't want to take a lot of time to answer this question. I talk about all of the things that we do to make our school great. I want to go back to Kelly, what she said about people want to work for a good principle. They want to work for someone who has structure. They want to work for somebody that has is organized and is a good leader. I see that more and more.
So I don't talk about myself, but I talk about how I essentially talk about the culture and that's totally been done by my leadership.
Rick Sola (52:49.893)Kelly, how about you?
Kelly Whittaker (52:51.426)I always ask my teachers that are in the room to respond to that first because I can obviously, hopefully I'm completely obsessed with my school because I'm leading it, but I want them to hear from my teachers before they hear from me. So I let my teachers in the room answer that question first and then I might add something at the end if I feel like it's appropriate because I don't want the candidate to think that there's nothing about this school that I enjoy. But I always like my teachers to answer that question first and tell them the things that they.
appreciate about our culture and our climate or the things that they do within their department or whatever that looks like.
Rick Sola (53:25.477)Great, Mike.
Mike Wiley (53:26.88)You know, we're in the people business and we deal with humans and we help make humans better, hopefully.
John (53:31.961)you
Mike Wiley (53:33.476)And so I talk about the connections, the connections between our staff, the connections our staff and students have, the connections that we have with our parents. ultimately, we, you know, if you're, if you are connected to the people that you work with, you'll enjoy it. I talk about the different ways that our staff members, you know, are connected outside of school, whether that's bunco, volleyball, know, sand volleyball team, whether it's the book club that's going on.
all the different TGIF opportunities and those kind of things. I talk about that we're a group of people that want to spend time together, not only at school, but outside. And that is why I keep coming back to this building every day. And I hope others feel the same.
Rick Sola (54:22.351)John?
John (54:23.885)I do the exact same thing that Kelly does. I let the teachers answer that. In fact, they actually like that because they want to tell them why, why we want to be here. you know, it's, it's, is the culture, you know, we've been working really hard and I know for like a lot of people, COVID was difficult for a lot of staffs. There was a lot of turnover and things like that, but the staff that we have now is, it, it was a good core at the beginning. Now we've made it even better. And so I let them answer it.
They explain why about the culture and the community and the support that we receive not only from each other but also from the community and just that's the best way to sell it in my opinion. And then I'll throw in my two cents about that. But really it's about them. I give them that opportunity. They're the best salesmen for that. I think that's really what
honestly that's what people are looking for in my opinion is they're looking for that confirmation and or that that barometer from this from the staff because if the staffers like you know people are gonna be like I don't know about this place but if they're coming back and saying we love this this this this this and they can rattle all those things off you know it's going to be a good place to work
Rick Sola (55:34.628)Right.
Rick Sola (55:44.357)Well, want to wrap this up, but I want to first just thank each of you for dedicating this hour of time to talk to the listeners of KPA and this podcast and really sharing a lot of valuable information about a part of our jobs that are so critical and has changed over the years. And we touched on all that, but we know how important it is to bring in good candidates to work with our kids, to work within our communities.
And so thank you so much for taking the time. I didn't mention this, but it's December 20th as we are recording this. Almost all of us, think, have had our students dismissed for the break here. And it's such a busy time. So thank you for committing this time here. Looking forward for everybody else to hear this. And thank you for all the great work that you do in your communities and for being a part of something that.
hopefully is getting listened to across the state because I only think it's making every one of us better. And just like Mike mentioned earlier, taking notes and stealing ideas, that's what this is all about. And the connections once again through KPA that I've made. I've known Mr. Wiley for a while here in Olathe, but Kelly, John, Leslie Ann, I've been able to meet you and connect with you through KPA and it's just been so, valuable. once again, just want to thank you all and we'll sign off and I want to wish you
Happy holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. Of course, as you're listening to this, it's already New Year, so hopefully it's off to good start. And we have a great second semester, so thank you so much.
Mike Wiley (57:19.946)Thank you, Rick.
Leslianne Craft (57:20.616)Thank you.
John (57:20.857)Thanks, Rick.
Kelly Whittaker (57:20.87)Thank you, Rick.
Mike Wiley (57:23.23)And John.
 

CC#29 - Happy New Year! - A Cool Coffee Recap, Preview, and Outreach

KPA's Cool Coffee podcast is hosted by KPA Communications Director, Principal Rick Sola from Olathe USD 233. In this episode, Rick provides a recap of the first semester of Cool Coffee as well as its purpose and goals. He also shares about the future of Cool Coffee and how listeners can contribute themselves to Cool Coffee. There's also a spoiler for upcoming Cool Coffee #30--you won't want to miss it!
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The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service.
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